“Time isn’t far when even Indian men will quit their faith from women and the Institution of marriage.”

Sharing a comment (and my response) asking some commonly asked questions about Marital Rape and how disallowing it might destabilise the society.  

GS: I have a question that I have in my mind which I wish to openly discuss. The urban Indian woman  has equally progressed in today’s society and doesn’t live in any kind of a subjection like before, things have gone normal which is the greatest achievement of our times,

IHM : Not true.

Amongst other things, if urban Indian women did not live in any kind of subjection then the society (atleast in urban India) would not continue to prefer male children.

And women and society would find it normal to live, work and travel alone,  dressed in clothes they prefer … as easily as the rest of the society does.

GS: what I’d like to enlighten here are more gender biased laws that our Indian Institutions have already passed in favour of women and what aches me more is the way “SOME WOMEN” use the same laws to harass their husband and his family.

IHM : I wish we had reliable  statistics of alleged ‘misuse’ of gender biased laws by women.

Also, which specific laws do you think should be changed and how would you change them – ensuring there is no misuse and no justice denied?

Do you think these laws are not required at all? Should domestic violence continue to be permitted just like marital rape is? Have we succeeded in creating healthy society by allowing crimes against some of the members? (No, we have reached a point where most parents do not want to have or to raise girl children, everybody prays, fasts and blesses for sons)

GS: Coming back to this article consent is a sensitive issue that cannot be proved in the Court of law.

IHM : Should a heinous crime be permitted because it is difficult to prove? Acquaintance rape or date rape or rape in live in relationships is also difficult to prove (and 98% of rapes are committed by someone known to the victim) [link] – but the law still does not permit rapes in these relationships.

As of now – marital rape is not a crime, even if it can be proven, where there are injuries and where violence is involved.

Do you think marital rape (- whether easy to prove or not) is less traumatic than rape outside of marriage?

Why do you think is rape traumatic for the victim?

Many Indians (who think marital rape should not become a crime) seem to believe the victim of rape becomes a zinda laash (a living corpse) – implying (amongst many other things) – physical and emotional trauma, caused by violence, violation, fear, physical injuries, stigma (if the crime is reported and becomes public) and more.

Now, which of these would not be experienced in case of  marital rape, but is experienced in rapes outside marriage? Stigma? Because it’s perfectly honorable for a victim to be raped by her spouse? So long as the rapist is a spouse or becomes one after the rape – there is no stigma.

One thing that would change with a law criminalising marital rape is that the society would begin to view rape as an assault and not as a shameful thing.

What does the legal right to rape an equal partner mean? How do you think does it affect a relationship? Amongst other things it creates a sense of entitlement. It also implies that forced sex is wrong only when the victim is being ‘dishonored’ and that there is no dishonor in sexually assaulting someone one is married to. Are honor, respect and equality possible in such a relationship?

How is marital rape less serious than domestic violence? Should any civilised society legally allow such crimes to be committed?

Legalising a crime is not a solution, because it changes the way the crime is viewed by the criminal, the victim and the entire society.

There is a general lack of healthy sex education or even communication about sex, and the law permits rape of a spouse, so for many Indians marital rape, or forced sex with spouse is not just perfectly acceptable – but actually quite normal. Seems disgusting and unbelievable? Take a look at the reactions to this groom raping a wedding guest: ‘Rapist groom should have waited a little to satiate his lusty desires without problems which he has got into.

The general tone of the comments is – “Fool did not wait for few hours to legality(sic) enjoy”. One comment suggests the groom was ‘practising’. There is a general sense that marriage entitles a man to unlimited power over the wife, and rape and sex are seen as the same thing. Can forced sex and respect coexist? Do these men [Or these, these, these, these, these and these] understand that sex can and should always be a mutually desirable act?[unimaginable!] Without understanding that and with so much ignorance – how can they be expected to view women as equal citizens and people with feelings?

There seems to be no question of what the woman thinks or feels. How can such relationships create happy and well adjusted families? What kind of society do such millions of such families create? We already know that –

More than half of young Indians believe it’s okay for a husband to beat his wife.

And, India leads in sexual violence, worst on gender equality: Study

GS: and some women can make a good misandry out of the same just like they did with Sec 498A.

IHM: Responded above. Need reliable statistics on misuse of 498A. What options do you suggest?

GS: Consent is not always given by women.

IHM: I didn’t understand this. Do you mean consent should always be given by women? Meaning women should not have the right to deny consent? Do you mean women should be forced to consent? How does the society benefit from this forcing?

Both men and women should have the right to give or to withhold consent. Sex without consent is called rape.

One way this would change relationships (and hence the society) is that even married men would make the effort to be nice to the wife (or vice versa) if they want sex, they would not feel entitled to sex.

For them, marriage is just a license to have socially accepted sex. Allowing women to say “no” takes that away from them. In the future, they might *gasp* actually have to try and be nice to the woman, make her feel wanted, and be romantic. You can’t treat her like dirt and still exercise a god given right to use her body when you want. More here – “Instituting the idea of marital rape raises the specter of a man going for long periods without sex even though he’s married!”

GS: Despite making the laws just in favour of women without any proof why can’t our government take active measures to create gender neutral laws instead of laws for protecting just women.

IHM: Gender Neutral laws are fair. Marital Rape and domestic violence should not be permitted to women either.

We also need more gender neutral laws to ensure women and men inherit equally, are provided equal opportunities for self reliance, are entitled to equal pay for equal work. Both men and women should feel safe – while travelling (especially after dark), or in public spaces or when under the influence of alcohol; marriage and parenting should not make men or women economically (or otherwise) dependent etc..Reservation by custom and tradition. Neither should be expected to forget their families and friends once they get married

GS: If the same situation continues time isn’t far when even Indian men will quit their faith from women and the Institution of marriage which would damage the family structure of a civilized society badly.
I need open minds to discuss this issue.

IHM: Do you mean that Indian men would not want to get married because they would fear being accused of raping their wives? These challenges should not deter the government from making laws that do not permit anybody to rape anybody. The law must acknowledge marital rape as a crime – just like we acknowledge other crimes like murder or acid attacks.

 Related Posts:
What makes Men Rape? – Do read.
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‘It’s true that every girl has to leave her own family and get along with a new family.’

Sharing a comment by Cultural Amalgamation in response to this post – An email from a Happily Married Indian Daughter in law.

Cultural Amalgamation: All the above replies reflect the current Young Gen society where the rate of separation with better half is more than that of bonding with love and affection as earlier times.

IHM:  Did the women in the earlier times have the option of separating without being boycotted, stigmatised or honor killed? Only if both the partners had the option of separating and they still chose to stay together, can we comment on the earlier ‘rate of separation’.

Cultural Amalgamation: Being individually separate and gardening your identities isn’t all life is about. Its just a notion begun by some liberal women and followed as a trend by the rest like the fashion sale at stores!

 

IHM: And being denied education and self reliance and being married off to live with strangers is what life is about? 

The concept of marriage is not well identified with everyone. The Love marriages husbands have no choice for they already have landed in soup. So they leave their parents behaving like cowards. Arrange marriages also have girls who have radical views. Google-ing such articles and hoping to change minds with family-dismantling views is really a disappointing and a pathetic situation for the present youth to be in.

 

IHM: Why is the children (only male children) moving out of the house (only if are married, because moving out for work is acceptable) a dismantling of family?  

Someday the gals who talk about liberty are going to be in their mother-in-laws shoes and they would realize when their Son moves out of house with some girl who he likes and doesn’t even know if he loves for the duration a quarter of the entire love and affection showered by his parents who always have been looking after his well being.

IHM: We really need to recognise that parental love for sons (And for daughters, because we seem to forget that Indian daughters have parents too.) is not the same as the love that couples have for each other. The spouse is a partner, not a parent. The spouse’s job is not to ‘look after’ the partner. 

Parents raise their children to become independent adults and teaching him (or her) to look after their own well being is a parent’s biggest responsibility. 

Somehow we seem to think that male children are required to somehow repay the love that the parents have showered on them. The girl children are expected to repay it too – with life long obedience to patriarchal rules. 

Cultural Amalgamation: Its true that every girl has to leave her own family and get along with a new family.

IHM: This idea is the reason why Indian parents pray, fast and sex-select for male children. Patrilocality favours the parens of male children.

It also keeps women and girl children in dependence, without which ‘has to get along with a new family’ would be difficult to enforce. 

Cultural Amalgamation: It is difficult to absorb but then it is equally difficult for the other side (family) too.

IHM: When it is ‘equally difficult’ for both the sides, then why do we hear misogynists fighting for Patriarchy, and Patrilocality?

Is it surprising that many women today prefer less difficult choices? 

Cultural Amalgamation: In modern days not all families have mother in laws/father in laws as showcased (cruel/orthodox) in classical drama movies.

IHM: If they are not orthodox they probably understand that modern young women (and men) should have the right to choose who they marry, where they live, what they wear, how they spend or save their money etc.

Cultural Amalgamation: Its all about beginning a new life and being absorbed and getting absorbed.

IHM: How do women benefit from being ‘absorbed’ in a new family?

They don’t.

Infact it makes them ‘paraya dhan’ in their own parents’ homes. We know the system has not worked, but many of us still wish to preserve it.

Cultural Amalgamation: It is an opportunity for every woman to help prosper her husband’s family and its also equally a responsibility that every family (parents) takes care of the daughter in law as they would do if she were their daughter.

IHM: Because daughters are viewed as those who help the husband’s family prosper, they remain unwanted by the parents. Since (traditionally) the daughters have not been permitted to prosper themselves, they remain dependent. 

“What do you think, blogger why Sexual Violence have increased at home in a country like INDIA which has the most peaceful religion?”

Sharing this comment because some of these points highlight how awareness or knowledge of sex, women’s sexuality, sex education, desire for sex and influence of other cultures continue to be viewed as the major causes for sexual crimes in India. 

Here’s the comment by him905. My response (to just some points) in blockquotes.

Causes of RAPE UPSURGE in our society.

IHM: Upsurge is only in reporting of rape – we have traditionally dealt with rapes with silencing of victim, that’s changing. 

1) PORN CULTURE-Today’s porn is not the same as it was invented back in 1950s where voluptuous women used to walk on beaches. It now portrays WOMEN as sex slave of MEN. NO WOMEN LIKE TO BE POUND BRUTALLY AND MAN HANDEDLY as is seen in Porn films.

Who wouldn’t want to display his manly power over women after watching a HARDCORE film (except educated, cultured and chivalrous men)?

IHM: Who? Someone who has had the opportunity to learn that rape is a serious and punishable crime, that women are people, that women are sexual people, that any sexual activity without consent is rape, that porn is not sex education. And someone who was permitted to find out how sex with consent could be.

WHY PORN? Science says-amygdala controls human emotions. Watching vulgar films increase dopamine levels which is responsible for arousing lustful desires against a woman. YES, LUSTFUL MEN and WOMEN HAVE HIGHER LEVELS OF DOPAMINE.
SO OUR GOVT MOVE ON BANNING PORNOGRAPHY AND VULGAR FILMS WHICH HAVE DESTROYED HAPPY HOMES IS AT LEAST AN EFFORT TO CURB RAPE MENACE IN OUR SOCIETY.

IHM: Rape is not always about sex or lust. Rape is frequently a patriarchal crime of hate, aggression, misogyny, ‘honor’, revenge or teaching a lesson. 

2) INHERENT MANLY CHARACTER-The above mentioned reason give boost to men to display his power over women. Women being weaker to men physically also give another reason to deflower her.

IHM:  A sexual assault should never be called ‘deflowering’ or any other term that disguises it or conveys that rape is about loss of virginity or honor.

And ‘manly-character’ is a patriarchal construct that causes a lot to harm to men and to the society because it includes aggression, anger, jealousy, hate, display of power and violence. Men are made to feel their worth lies in displaying these characteristics, and not in being themselves. 

What do you think, blogger why Sexual Violence have increased at home in a country like INDIA which has the most peaceful religion?

IHMI am not sure if any religion views a sexual assault as a violent crime against the victim, most seem to view it as deflowering, or stealing of something that belonged to the husband or community.

So far as I am aware, all religions are patriarchal. 

Fist blame Islamic Invaders and Christians for uprooting our society. Now blame men who watch porn secretly and later force his wife to have sex to vent out his lustful desires. Its common in lower middle class and labor families (rickshaw wala types) where men’s mind is corrupted.

IHM: Blame the legally sanctioned patriarchal sense of entitlement. Many men assume/hear and learn, that marriage means sex on demand. 

And blame the lack of effort by the society and the law to ensure that women stay in marriages only because they really want to. 

We actually pressurise the victims to support the crime by forbidding them from walking away from circumstances that lead to the crime. There is no effort to teach from childhood about abusive relationships, controlling relationships, seeking happiness for self.  Self reliance and freedom are looked down upon. No point talking about all of this – because we have a law that permits rape. In this regard Live in relationships are safer for women, but most religions don’t approve of that either. 

 

3) NUDITY OF WOMEN- Its not applicable to every man. Illiterate men, gangsters, hooligans usually cant tolerate a women walking in semi nude dress while showing tight boobs and ass. In ancient times, Indian women would not cover her breasts (see sculptures of ancient temples) or cover with diaphanous clothes, were more voluptuous because men at that time would respect women thanks to our vedic culture at that time.

IHM: Two many factually incorrect assertions here.

 

Mr Balvinder Singh’s experience in Nagaland shows making rules about covering up a woman’s body, is the beginning of objectification of women, to ensure ‘excitement’ does not ‘turn into monotony’. [link]

 

But let me ask,  do some men rape anybody they find sexually attractive?  If we are serious about controlling sexual crimes, then shouldn’t we aim to identify and lock away such men?

 

Rape is not always a crime of impulse or of finding someone sexually attractive  – most rapes are well planned, and more about hate or aggression than about the sexual attractiveness of the victim.

 

4) POLITICAL REASONS- Weak laws, political relations to escape imprisonment is one of the biggest cause of rape increasing in our country.

5) CONSENSUAL RELATIONSHIPS- This type of rape cases are common in rich class. Women are raped in farm houses although a sexual act is started by the mutual consent of the partners but later it becomes against a woman’s consent. She is usually given threat to disclose it in public.

IHM: Consensual relations become against woman’s consent? Rape is lack of consent. The moment there is denial of consent, a sexual act becomes rape.

Anybody who feels they can’t handle this, must inform those they wish to have sex with, so that they can be avoided, or can be locked away for public safety.

BIGGEST MYTHS REGARDING RAPE

1) INDIA HAS LARGEST NO OF RAPES. just because mainstream secular media highlights it in bold letters without knowing the facts. YOU CAN CHECK WIKIPEDIA LISTS OF TOP COUNTRIES IN RAPE. USA and other developed countries figure in top ten. India is in 20+ rank. India is still one of the safest places for women.

IHM: Denial is a common method used for ‘controlling’ crime. It has never worked.

2) DISCUSSIONS ON SEXUALITY- Indians might wonder that we don’t discuss sexuality openly which causes rape as it suppresses sexual desires. LIBERAL COUNTRIES FIGURE IN TOP TEN IN RAPE STATISTICS. WHY they are ahead of us? Discussing sexuality can teach you about a human body and sexual desires arises out of the environment in which the person is living, media effects and peer culture but it cant teach you about respecting a person as a whole including his body and emotions.

IHM: Discussion of sex could lead to sex. That’s fine. Sex is not a bad thing. We need to focus on controlling sexual assaults.

There should be no confusion – Sex is good, Sexual assault is bad.

Mixing morals, virginity, personal sexual habits/preferences/orientations of adults distracts from the issue at hand.

3) ALL RAPE CASES ARE GENUINE- one third rape cases in NCR are false ones as cited by The Hindu’s article on rape analysis and statistics. WOMEN know very well how to malign a man!

IHM: Rape needs to be defined clearly, legally. Lack of consent  or Forced sex is rape.

Consensual premarital sex is not rape. A sexual assault upon. Sex ‘with promise to marry’ is cheating, not rape.

4) WOMEN SHOULD COVER THEIR BODIES- IT will not solve the problem. Rape cases are very common in muslims countries although it arises due to pathetic treatment of women in Islam.

5) PATRIARCHY SYSTEM-Talking about ancient INDIAN society, patriarchy gave many rights and freedom to women which can even give an inferiority complex to women advocating feminism! RAPE DIDN’T EXIST. I know it because I am studying Hinduism as my hobby. Today’s patriarchy got distorted because Indian men failed to realise the glory of women in hinduism and instead went ahead like that of abrahmic religions’ patriarchy style.

IHM: Patriarchy ‘gave’ rights and freedom to women?Rape didn’t exist when forced sex was not viewed as rape.

 

‘the glory of women in hinduism’? While misogyny is common to most religions and cultures, I think Hinduism alone denies widows even the most basic human rights.

6) LAW IS THE ONLY SOLUTION TO END RAPE- USA has a well ordered and controlled LAW SYSTEM in the world but not an effective system to curb the social evils like rape. USA RANKS NO 1 IN RAPE CRIMES DESPITE BEING LIBERAL ON SEX. why? USA believes in controlling the social evils by creating a fear against that evil in criminals and general public. It can give a rapid solution but not a permanent solution in long run. It believes in controlling the derivative (by making laws) but not the root cause of rape (problem with a man’s psyche and vulgar milieu). In INDIA due to our culture, majority of men still see women as a respectful person. The culprits are the ones who see women as a sex slaves of men. INDIA is too following the path of USA to establish the stringent laws against rape and harassment but it will also fail in long run like USA.

IHM: ‘In INDIA due to our culture, majority of men still see women as a respectful person. The culprits are the ones who see women as a sex slaves of men.’

A culture that permits rape within marriage and also views marriage as the sole purpose of a woman’s life – how does it see women as respectful people and not as ‘sex slaves of men’?

Our problems appear unsolvable because we have failed to understand ourselves in our own language, on our own terms. To top the hypocrisy, on the same few square inches of lifestyle websites we have the pontification of the social scientists on how lustful desires can spice our lives and liberate society from clutches of centuries of restraint promoted on various lifestyle websites but we do not see our contradictions. We can emulate aspects of USA’s well-functioning systems of local government and law and marry it with dharma society to create a better India. But even to learn from others we must study them on our own terms. Its applicable to every country of this world.

IHM: Our problems appear unsolvable? Which problems?

 

Consensual-sex is not a problem. Lustful desires (even women’s lustful desires) are not a problem.  Premarital sex is not a problem (and nobody’s business so long there is consent, willing partners above the age of consent)

 

Our only problem is that we refuse to view Sexual Assault as a criminal assault on a person. Comparable to an acid attack, stabbing or an amputation.

 

And to answer this question again,

“What do you think, blogger why Sexual Violence have increased at home in a country like INDIA which has the most peaceful religion?”

IHM: Sexual violence at home has not increased –  it is being reported more.  Victim blaming, shaming, silencing has lesser hold on the society now, so maybe we are beginning to finally deal with an issue we can no longer pretend away.

 

Related Posts:

Justice Verma Committee is inviting solutions and ideas in regards to sexual harassment/ assault/ molestation/ rape.

How does an average Indian define Rape, Child Abuse and Consensual Sex?

So how does Delhi – NCR Police define Rape?

“If we have people of your ilk in Bharat we do not need external enemies at all!”

A response to: Why we think women activists should change their attitude of “wear what you like”

Do some of us see anything that is done purely for pleasure (no moral or monetary benefits), as wrong?

‘I’m now thoroughly convinced that the entire concept of virginity is used to control female sexuality.’

Making Marital Rape a legal offence is the fastest way to make it clear that Rape means forced sex, not lost Virginity or Honor.

Here’s why I think the society should not obsess over a woman’s virginity.

‘Rape is theft of the victim’s potential to fulfil her destiny from birth, the pivot of her existence, her marriage.’

40% of rape charges were filed by parents of girls who had eloped consensually with a boy

7 things that can make ‘Rape sometimes right’.

Forced intercourse in marriage not rape: Delhi court

“See – UNICEF has figured it out. It doesn’t take rocket science to figure out.”

Would this crime have been reported if he had mercilessly raped her but not sodomised her?

A comment- ‘Reverse the gender, and it is marital rape.’

Bikini vs Burka: The Debauchery of Women

“If we have people of your ilk in Bharat we do not need external enemies at all!”

Sharing a series of comments by vijayaa108 and my attempt to respond.

vijayaa108 – You are indeed carrying a very big chip on your shoulder against Bharat ,her cultural traditions and also against the upper caste!
Pity you did not have the choice to be born elsewhere and were born in this पुण्यभूमि (punyabhoomi) called भारतवर्ष! (Bharatvarsh!)

IHM: We are not in competition with the world to prove Bharatvarsh a Punyabhoomi. Any place where people respect human values and where justice is honestly sought and respected is a punyabhoomi.

vijayaa108 – If we have people of your ilk in Bharat we do not need external enemies at all!

IHM: If life and nation have to be seen as a war and ‘enemies’ have to be identified, don’t you think discrimination, injustice, prejudice and intolerance would be serious enemies?

vijayaa108 – Wouldn’t it be better if you along with the person as ‘big as a thumb’ (who has also replied with a comment) emigrate to another country where you will never have to fight against any injustice.

IHM: Why should we not fight against injustice right here, where we live?

vijayaa108 – I am quite amused at the graphic picture you have painted of the very country of your birth.
Horrible injustices like child marriage, being burned on the pyre with your husband, suffering terribly at the hands of the husband’s family, with clean-shaven heads and drab clothes roaming on the streets of Vrindavan!
What a horror land called Bharat!

IHM: It is horrible, and we must face it honestly and fight against it if we care for the ‘land called Bharat’  (or the country of our birth).

Or if we simply care for the people who live in this land. All of them. No matter what their castes, gender or birth place or education or economic levels.

vijayaa108 – And yet paradoxically this land has given Light to World civilization.

IHM: ….

vijayaa108 – As you are ‘western educated’ and lucky to have been born after western education came to Bharat you could try reading a bit on famous Western world figures like Thoreau, Mark Twain, Yehudi Menuhin, Kipling, Arthur Schopenhauer, Romain Roland et al.
There are many more names I could suggest but for the time being this is quite an array for you tackle.

IHM: In today’s India,  the right to equality and right to justice is NOT reserved for those who have read the above list. Whether one can read or not, basic human rights are for all.

Choosing one’s partner and consensual sex without risking sexual assaults or honor killing are human rights too.

vijayaa108 – Never did I ever state anywhere that I am against western education.
I wonder how could you ‘interpret’ my posting as though I am an enemy of western education!
However, westernization does not mean as modernity – denial of one’s own संस्कृति । (sanskruti)

IHM: Which sanskruti is ‘one’s own sanskruti’? The one that one’s ancestors, parents and neighbours etc call their own sanskruti?

Why does this sanskruti need to be defended and saved?  And why do we need to fight against those who don’t wish to save this sanskruti? Why does this sanskruti need approval and support, whose approval and whose support?

Do some of us feel they own this sanskruti and do they get to define how the others aught to treat this sanskruti?

vijayaa108 – What I stated was the innate anathema of some of our people against anything that is indigenously Bharateeya once they get western education.

IHM: Why does it matter? Does ‘anything that is indigenously Bharateeya’ needs to be defended? Who should be bothered, why and how should they defend it? Who should not be against ‘anything that is indigenously Bharateeya’? Why?

vijayaa108 – Unless one has roots in one’s own संस्कृति (sanskruti) one will be like गंगा गए गंगाराम, यमुना गए यमुनादास! (Ganga gaye toh gangaraam, yamuna gaye toh yamunadaas!)

IHM: Roughly translates to – ‘Gangaram when they go to Ganga, Yamunaram when they go to Yamuna’ Meaning someone who doesn’t have an identity of their own, and changes colors depending on where they are?

Does it mean we need a rigidly defined identity? Some of us may just want to be ourselves?

Also consider, many might find it more practical to do in Rome as Romans do.

And finally, all these ideas of identities – don’t they create divides? Aren’t we all citizens of this world and isn’t it enough to respect human values?

vijayaa108 – I am out and out for women (being a woman myself) but with balance.
For women to be free, independent, educated, enlightened along with virtues of compassion, honesty, sincerity and enlightenment.
To be a woman is to act with wisdom, discrimination and enlightenment.

IHM: Nobody needs to be ‘out and out for women’, it’s enough if one is for human rights for all, women and men and children.

Women do not need to be any more sincere, enlightened, wise, compassionate or virtuous etc than non-women and the rest of the world.

vijayaa108 – Who does not appreciate the comforts of modern life!
However, you have confused the issue when you say that modern comforts, advancement in medicine etc is due to Western education.
Not at all!
This is because of INNOVATION of the human mind and intelligence.
Western education is not to be confused with modernity.

Kindly do not misinterpret my words.

IHM: So modern comforts, advancement in medicine etc is INNOVATION of the human mind, but Bhratvarsh has given light to the world civilization?

Quoting you,

“And yet paradoxically this land has given Light to World civilization.”

Is that how we defend Bhartiya Sanskruti against perceived enemies?

vijayaa108 – Who says there is no protection for women?
Women have to empower themselves. Responsible thinking and right action.
Women are in fact more powerful than men and I have never ever felt weak or powerless. All the women in family educated or not were powerful women who acted with the greatest of courage and conviction.

IHM: Which is why we pray and fast for, and celebrate the birth of a male child?  Which is why girl children remain unwanted and why we have skewed gender ratio and why India is the worst place in the world to be a woman?

India leads in sexual violence, worst on gender equality: Study

Some doors are different… they are closed for fifty percent of the population.

Do you really believe that ‘Women are in fact more powerful than men ….’?  What kind of ‘Responsible thinking and right action’ would protect women from the culture of obedience and not ‘answering back’, and the culture of Silencing of Victims to protect family honor/name?

Study finds 98% of India rape victims knew their attacker.

vijayaa108 – Education does not mean shouting from the rooftops about women’s rights.

IHM: Meaning education should be permitted (to women) on condition that they don’t let it go to their heads?

Shouting from rooftops, online discussions, some practical support, some emotional support – whatever is needed, whatever one can give, should be welcome. No?

Awareness of rights and justice is more about attitude and mindset, than education level, class, caste or gender.

vijayaa108 – Just wearing western attire does not make us one of them.

IHM: Ever wonder – Why does what women wear concern everybody so much?

It’s not how much is covered or exposed (sarees expose much more than salwar and many western outfits), but how much choice women have in wearing what they are wearing.

It particularly seems to bother those who claim to wish to protect bharteeyata? Why does women choosing what they wear worry them? Do some people feel that controlling women’s choices saves Bharteeyata? In that case, would you worry about what they think is Bharteeyata?

vijayaa108 – The problem is that we have lost our identity and are extremely confused.

IHM: Meaning we have stopped bothering to twist ourselves to fit into the roles patriarchal traditions  defined for us?

Who is this a problem for? Who is confused? Those who had the power to control those born into less fortunate identities?

vijayaa108 – We are neither western nor Bharateeya. We have become deracinated from our own culture.

IHM: That is not a problem at all. Races, castes and even cultural identities are discriminatory and prejudiced generalizations. It is more honest, realistic and practical to see ourselves as individuals.

vijayaa108 – Come abroad and see for yourselves the state of women here and you will then realize the worth of what you have there.

IHM: 😦

Here is something from an Indian woman, who went abroad and saw for herself, and this is what she realised.

From Direct Dil Se, by Akanksha Dureja

Getting used to remarks and stares was the only way of life I knew, as an Indian woman.

“I hadn’t known that is was possible to be out the whole day and not be reminded of being a woman who is unsafe. Getting used to remarks and stares was the only way of life I knew, as an Indian woman. A pepper spray in my bag could also not make me feel safe even during the day. But then I saw a different world which is too good to be true. If only I could make Indian women feel respected and safe. If only I could given them a taste of safety, I would be able to enjoy my own. The guilt just refuses to go… “

vijayaa108 – If you think our traditions have been twisted then I say why don’t you untwist them?
You have the power to do so.

IHM:  I see these online discussions as a small step towards untwisting them for ourselves.

vijayaa108 – You talk of choosing freedom and yes of course why should anyone stop you.
Yet there is something called ‘freedom with responsibility’ not only to oneself but those close to one.

IHM: The Freedoms that bother patriarchy the most  are,

1. Freedom from semi forced marriages arranged by the family elders,

2. Freedom from being pressurized to bear male children,

3. Freedom from Moral and Culture police,

4. Freedom from being objectified as the Honor of the family, community, fathers, brothers, uncles

5. Freedom from raising a loved child to be a future obedient, dependent daughter in law.

6. Freedom from having to Get Married and Stay Married.

7. Freedom from having to save the Bharteeya Culture (particularly as defined by those who feel it needs protection)

8. Freedom of expression – which would not be necessary if it did not include expressing unpopular opinions.

9. Freedom to decide who women love, hate, divorce, have sex with, refuse sex to, live with, separate from etc.

There are many, many more.

*

And, here are some Freedoms that are popular with those who want to save Bharteeya Sanskruti and modern Indian women:

1. Freedom to dictate who other equal citizens have sex with, marry, divorce, dance, eat, drink, socialize with, avoid, ignore etc.

2. Freedom to decide who does not enter places of worship and when.

3. Freedom to decide what other people wear or not wear, when and where.

4. Freedom to decide what other people ear or drink.

5. Freedom to decide what other people read, watch, admire, appreciate, ignore, display, sometimes even buy or sell.

vijayaa108 – No man is an island. Everything is not based on the basic instinct sex.
Anyway your ideology is centered around yourself and so ahead and good luck.

IHM: Basic Instinct Sex is not the problem. Patriarchy is.

Basic Instinct Sex – so long as it is between two consenting, uncommitted adults (or above age of consent) is only their business.

Problem is when Patriarchy sees virginity and abstinence as virtues and attempts to enforce it, or punish those (mainly women) who do not agree with them.

Problem is when patriarchy sees Honor and Shame in heinous crimes, but refuses to respect harmless personal choices.

And problem is when victims are silenced and criminals are protected.

Related Posts:

A response to: Why we think women activists should change their attitude of “wear what you like”

Why do Indian women like to wear western clothes?

Letting an outsider see or comment upon our imperfections is washing dirty linen in public?

Display of respect to those in power, in Indian culture.

How are mothers treated in Indian culture?

Response from the email writer accused of betraying her “parents, country and culture by not having an arranged marriage”

“I am betraying my parents, country and culture by not having an arranged marriage, people are talking, younger sisters not getting married.”

When parents own their children, and men own their women.

Do some of us see anything that is done purely for pleasure (no moral or monetary benefits), as wrong?

So what does marriage mean to traditional and conservative Indians?