“Time isn’t far when even Indian men will quit their faith from women and the Institution of marriage.”

Sharing a comment (and my response) asking some commonly asked questions about Marital Rape and how disallowing it might destabilise the society.  

GS: I have a question that I have in my mind which I wish to openly discuss. The urban Indian woman  has equally progressed in today’s society and doesn’t live in any kind of a subjection like before, things have gone normal which is the greatest achievement of our times,

IHM : Not true.

Amongst other things, if urban Indian women did not live in any kind of subjection then the society (atleast in urban India) would not continue to prefer male children.

And women and society would find it normal to live, work and travel alone,  dressed in clothes they prefer … as easily as the rest of the society does.

GS: what I’d like to enlighten here are more gender biased laws that our Indian Institutions have already passed in favour of women and what aches me more is the way “SOME WOMEN” use the same laws to harass their husband and his family.

IHM : I wish we had reliable  statistics of alleged ‘misuse’ of gender biased laws by women.

Also, which specific laws do you think should be changed and how would you change them – ensuring there is no misuse and no justice denied?

Do you think these laws are not required at all? Should domestic violence continue to be permitted just like marital rape is? Have we succeeded in creating healthy society by allowing crimes against some of the members? (No, we have reached a point where most parents do not want to have or to raise girl children, everybody prays, fasts and blesses for sons)

GS: Coming back to this article consent is a sensitive issue that cannot be proved in the Court of law.

IHM : Should a heinous crime be permitted because it is difficult to prove? Acquaintance rape or date rape or rape in live in relationships is also difficult to prove (and 98% of rapes are committed by someone known to the victim) [link] – but the law still does not permit rapes in these relationships.

As of now – marital rape is not a crime, even if it can be proven, where there are injuries and where violence is involved.

Do you think marital rape (- whether easy to prove or not) is less traumatic than rape outside of marriage?

Why do you think is rape traumatic for the victim?

Many Indians (who think marital rape should not become a crime) seem to believe the victim of rape becomes a zinda laash (a living corpse) – implying (amongst many other things) – physical and emotional trauma, caused by violence, violation, fear, physical injuries, stigma (if the crime is reported and becomes public) and more.

Now, which of these would not be experienced in case of  marital rape, but is experienced in rapes outside marriage? Stigma? Because it’s perfectly honorable for a victim to be raped by her spouse? So long as the rapist is a spouse or becomes one after the rape – there is no stigma.

One thing that would change with a law criminalising marital rape is that the society would begin to view rape as an assault and not as a shameful thing.

What does the legal right to rape an equal partner mean? How do you think does it affect a relationship? Amongst other things it creates a sense of entitlement. It also implies that forced sex is wrong only when the victim is being ‘dishonored’ and that there is no dishonor in sexually assaulting someone one is married to. Are honor, respect and equality possible in such a relationship?

How is marital rape less serious than domestic violence? Should any civilised society legally allow such crimes to be committed?

Legalising a crime is not a solution, because it changes the way the crime is viewed by the criminal, the victim and the entire society.

There is a general lack of healthy sex education or even communication about sex, and the law permits rape of a spouse, so for many Indians marital rape, or forced sex with spouse is not just perfectly acceptable – but actually quite normal. Seems disgusting and unbelievable? Take a look at the reactions to this groom raping a wedding guest: ‘Rapist groom should have waited a little to satiate his lusty desires without problems which he has got into.

The general tone of the comments is – “Fool did not wait for few hours to legality(sic) enjoy”. One comment suggests the groom was ‘practising’. There is a general sense that marriage entitles a man to unlimited power over the wife, and rape and sex are seen as the same thing. Can forced sex and respect coexist? Do these men [Or these, these, these, these, these and these] understand that sex can and should always be a mutually desirable act?[unimaginable!] Without understanding that and with so much ignorance – how can they be expected to view women as equal citizens and people with feelings?

There seems to be no question of what the woman thinks or feels. How can such relationships create happy and well adjusted families? What kind of society do such millions of such families create? We already know that –

More than half of young Indians believe it’s okay for a husband to beat his wife.

And, India leads in sexual violence, worst on gender equality: Study

GS: and some women can make a good misandry out of the same just like they did with Sec 498A.

IHM: Responded above. Need reliable statistics on misuse of 498A. What options do you suggest?

GS: Consent is not always given by women.

IHM: I didn’t understand this. Do you mean consent should always be given by women? Meaning women should not have the right to deny consent? Do you mean women should be forced to consent? How does the society benefit from this forcing?

Both men and women should have the right to give or to withhold consent. Sex without consent is called rape.

One way this would change relationships (and hence the society) is that even married men would make the effort to be nice to the wife (or vice versa) if they want sex, they would not feel entitled to sex.

For them, marriage is just a license to have socially accepted sex. Allowing women to say “no” takes that away from them. In the future, they might *gasp* actually have to try and be nice to the woman, make her feel wanted, and be romantic. You can’t treat her like dirt and still exercise a god given right to use her body when you want. More here – “Instituting the idea of marital rape raises the specter of a man going for long periods without sex even though he’s married!”

GS: Despite making the laws just in favour of women without any proof why can’t our government take active measures to create gender neutral laws instead of laws for protecting just women.

IHM: Gender Neutral laws are fair. Marital Rape and domestic violence should not be permitted to women either.

We also need more gender neutral laws to ensure women and men inherit equally, are provided equal opportunities for self reliance, are entitled to equal pay for equal work. Both men and women should feel safe – while travelling (especially after dark), or in public spaces or when under the influence of alcohol; marriage and parenting should not make men or women economically (or otherwise) dependent etc..Reservation by custom and tradition. Neither should be expected to forget their families and friends once they get married

GS: If the same situation continues time isn’t far when even Indian men will quit their faith from women and the Institution of marriage which would damage the family structure of a civilized society badly.
I need open minds to discuss this issue.

IHM: Do you mean that Indian men would not want to get married because they would fear being accused of raping their wives? These challenges should not deter the government from making laws that do not permit anybody to rape anybody. The law must acknowledge marital rape as a crime – just like we acknowledge other crimes like murder or acid attacks.

 Related Posts:
What makes Men Rape? – Do read.

25 thoughts on ““Time isn’t far when even Indian men will quit their faith from women and the Institution of marriage.”

  1. What is galling the presumption that it is better to allow huge numbers of women to continue to suffer misery, rape and humiliation at the hands of their husbands in order to protect the handful of men whose wives might misuse laws to harass them. Like you said, it is important to get a statistical figure of the number of cases of misuse of the law as against the number of women who are raped in and out of marriage. Of course, it would be difficult to get a statistic of those raped within marriage, because by definition (according to our laws) there is nothing such as marital rape.

    It appears in our country the premium on men is still much higher than that on women. Women are damned to suffer – that is their lot. How can the law allow men to suffer, however few they be? Even animals may not be harassed. Consider the (rightful) outrage and demand to punish a politician who so badly injured a horse that it died two days ago after so much of suffering. But women? Who cares?

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    • Madam,
      I agree on the statement that there might be a number of unreported cases that happen in a marriage but with a negative wave of some feminists the problem feasts mostly on innocent husband’s and the real preprators are left unscathed.
      Secondly the premium of men was once higher than that of the female. The tables turned 2 decades back with a real feminists movement that I am proud of.
      I was proud of my mother, proud of my grand mother’s. But today’s something different. I request you to please go through the links once again. Thankyou🙂

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  2. Is that a real person? A real email/letter?
    Of everything said above, what really got to me is – So, men would lose faith in women if we raise our voice against rape?
    He/She doesn’t need an open-minded person to talk. they need a therapist who has the patience..

    Liked by 1 person

    • Men like him intend this as a threat. Don’t ask for rights that take male privilege away. If you do, we will punish you, aka, not marry you.

      I sincerely hope that men who think like this should act good on their threat. They regard marriage as a form of power, not as a partnership.

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      • Neha,
        I agree marriage as a form of partnership. Its a good point indeed why dont then we talk about legalising prenup agreements? So that atleast the guy has rights to protect his assets.

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        • Sure, let’s legalise pre-nups. However, at the same time, let’s also legalise community property, court-mandated and state-enforced child support payment, no-fault divorce and the criminal prosecution of defaults on child support.

          These safeguards are in place in most developed nations. You seem to think that men in the West can “protect” themselves with pre-nups, but you also ignore the wide panoply of safeguards that homemakers and children enjoy.

          A divorced father in the West is forced to pay child support, even when the mother gets custody and controls visiting rights. In the US, state prosecutors jail divorced fathers who skip child support payments.

          Any asset created during the life of a marriage, is jointly owned, regardless of who earns and in whose name it is in. The primary wage-earner is NOT the sole owner, unlike India.

          You want pre-nups? Sure. Be prepared, however, for a Western approach to marriage and divorce, which is overwhelmingly in favour of women.

          Liked by 1 person

  3. You are fighting a losing battle, IHM. Very few men in India consider equality a natural thing and those of us who are married to such men are the luckiest Indian women alive. 90% of Indian men believe that sex is granted in a marriage and that women have no say (either way, to want or not).

    I know of a friend whose husband called her a whore because one one night she sought him out. So, while it is perfectly acceptable for a man to impose on his wife whether or not she is “in the mood”, when a woman seeks intimacy with her husband (husband, mind it), she is a vamp and whore.

    Sorry, you are fighting a losing battle. But at least you are fighting. Thank you.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Seeking women into submission or into consenting sex in long term relationships men often accuse them of coveting someone else. The accusation of infidelity is the worse kind of all for desi women. In a research study Sahota (2002) found that women consented to sex in marriage to avoid being accused of getting it from elsewhere. A desi woman would prefer dying than being accused of infidelity.

      Women’s desire is considered insatiable in both classic and folk literature. It is 2016 and desi folk especially greater number men haven’t yet evolved. It serves to be ignorant because ignorance here is a privilege. To be informed will be acknowledge the privilege and share it.

      Peace,
      Desi Girl

      Liked by 1 person

  4. “If the same situation continues time isn’t far when even Indian men will quit their faith from women and the Institution of marriage ”
    — Ha ha ha and do what?

    This is absolute rubbish. all that they will do is adapt and become better human beings ..

    Liked by 3 people

  5. “Time isn’t far when even Indian men will quit their faith from women and the Institution of marriage”

    What he means: Indian men only play the marriage game because they always win. If you try to enforce rules to make it fair, maybe we will take our ball and go home!

    Liked by 3 people

    • Amen to that (take the ball to go home).
      Perhaps I have become cynical as I grow older, but I genuinely feel that women would be much happier if they were not forced to endure unequal marriages.

      When I look around me, at my circle of middle-class people, I see women making the majority of “adjustments”, whether they are financial, sexual, emotional, or psychological.

      Many stay only because divorce is so stigmatised. My best friend is in a typical Indian “dominating in-laws/spineless husband” marriage.

      I have seen the light go out of her eyes in the past six years. She was a fiery, vivacious woman before she married. She had a full-throated laugh, boundless optimism and dreams of starting her own business.

      Now I just see a woman who sleepwalks through life. Often, marriage kills the woman’s spirit, crushes her dreams and her sense of self-worth.

      I know very few women who draw strength and support from their marriage. For many, marriage is a heavy cross that they joylessly bear.

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  6. “GS: If the same situation continues time isn’t far when even Indian men will quit their faith from women and the Institution of marriage which would damage the family structure of a civilized society badly.
    I need open minds to discuss this issue.”

    This is exactly what I propose men like you should do. You are not doing the world and/or women any favors by agreeing to marry them. Basically–no one cares if you and men like you stage some sort of protest by refusing to get married.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Dear Kay,
      I am all in for marriage and consider it a fair and equal partnership but you can’t deny the fact that if something goes wrong who is to blame? People change especially females are more audible to express their feelings but men can’t. Again it would be better if things don’t get personal here. I am expressing my views to enlighten myself still I have not got anything in numbers to prove me wrong.

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  7. Whether the email writer likes it or not, Indian marriages are already changing, and men are reluctantly accepting the new reality. The change is a tentative move toward equality – even if it’s slow – at least among middle class families.

    I have several nephews and younger cousins. When their parents look for arranged matches for them, they are finding that they cannot specify, “girl must be a home maker or girl must give up job and move”. Almost every girl they come across already has a job that she doesn’t want to give up and therefore wants to marry someone in the same city preferably or be sure that the boy’s city has the right companies/prospects for her.

    Another thing these parents are exasperated about – all the girls are asking for 1 to 2 years age difference max – so there’s more equality in the marriage.

    Indian women now also seem to have other requirements – on looks, education, and job/company for the man. While I’m not into this whole business-deal-type system, at least the playing field is more even.

    Another piece of good news – many parents (among my relatives) are lamenting that there are not enough girls “available” because so many are having “love marriages”. Whether these “love” marriages are equal ones or not, I’m not sure, but it’s a step in the right direction – if girls are not waiting for their elders to find them a groom.

    It’s quite amusing actually – to watch these “boys’ parents” sweat it:)

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    • I am happy to read your comment here Priya and I thank you so much for the same.
      When looking for an arranged marriage men are calculated sternly on their balance sheet. What car they own, which locality they live in etc. These are the set backs of the deep rooted patriarchy which is equally enrooted in both the genders.
      We as future parents can definitely change this.
      I’d also like to add that its not women who are objectified but men too face the same objectification the problem is a women’s objectification is accepted and redressed but one turns a deaf ear on male objectification y patriarchical elders.

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      • @Geet Sahani: I am bit late in adding my opinion on your comment ” men are calculated sternly on their balance sheet”
        As much as I agree with your point, I would have liked your comment if you had also mention about dowry, or shagun ( both are same btw) that groom’s family demands openly or give subtle hints about…. or how the oh-so-very-common taunts by mother-in-law post wedding ” ki ye nahi kiya shadi mai, wo nahi kiya, hamari dhang se izzat nai hui”….husbands turn deaf ear on such remarks and support their mother.
        And this is not rare, its very very common. Greed of women when they sell their sons in arrange marriage have no bounds, and this attitude of husbands ruin the marriages.

        And How about bringing a new “gender equality law” which would be enforced on all the newly married couples to live separately for 8 initial 8-10 years and then both can decide how they want to take care of each other’s parents, and not just husband’s family…why only girl is forced to leave her family? Gender-equaity, right?

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  8. It’s futile to engage in debate with men such as these, because, fundamentally, they view gender equality as a threat. They think they that basic rights for women are “privileges” that men pay the price for.

    The idea that women are human beings, not brood mares or sex machines, is something that they cannot experiantially comprehend.

    This very man would be outraged if the legal framework allowed the widespread rape of men by women — they don’t even understand that male rape victims exist, and are stigmatised far more than female ones.

    To them, life is a zero sum game —

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  9. Are you sure the time where men will give up on women and the institution of marriage? I still feel like the institution of marriage is something that is very difficult to break in India as it’s a huge aspect in India, and that the concept that it should be more of a choice is still frowned upon.

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  10. Men would give up on marriage… Seriously anyone thinks that!!! I am amazed at the audacity of this thought

    Plain and simple, where will men get sex if they don’t marry. And if you encourage premarital sex for men, of course you will have pre marital sex for women. It is unavoidable. That will require hundreds of things to happen in indian society. who will take care of men’s older parents? How will you get dowry? So please don’t bring in couple of laws and make ridiculous assertions

    There is not one society where men have turned away from marriage inspite of having Complete freedom. And any society which is closer to it, have accepted women freedom and independence including financial, physical, sexualization long time back.

    Liked by 1 person

  11. I’m sorry but i don’t understand what this man is trying to say. Is he saying that if there is a law against marital rape then vindictive women will start accusing their innocent husbands of rape?? or is he saying that sex is a man right in marriage therefore rape is impossible in marriage?? I’m trying to understand his point. First a good man would never rape his wife because sex in a marriage should be based on respect, passion and consent from both spouses. Seems to me that the only men who have a problem with a law against marital rape are those who believe its their right to control their wives’ bodies. Also the whole vindictive women will start crying rape comments that they love to make makes no sense because rape is one of the most under reported crimes in every country. Guess their arent that many vindictive women out there

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