“This is reply to BBC for making video on rape cases in other countries…”

How do men (and women) in patriarchal societies respond to anything they perceive as dishonour?

With retaliation?

But why did ‘India’s Daughter’ offend some Indian men (and women)?

1. Maybe because many of us view women as men’s ‘mothers and daughters’ and hence as Men’s honors and shames.

(And not as equal citizens, which is also why some of us are less outraged with the rapists’ lawyer saying, ‘women have no place in our culture’)

So any mention of sexual attacks on Indian women is something to be hushed up, not made into documentaries?

2. Also, many of us realised this.

As repulsive as it was, it’s a good thing the Delhi rapist came out with that statement. Now all those misogynistic politicians and opinion leaders who held a similar view ought to realise they think like a rapist.[Indian Feminist League]

Harvinder Singh of Delhi made the video below in two hours. The 28-minute video’s description reads:

“This is reply (sic) to BBC for making video on rape cases in other countries when they are them self (sic) at the 5th place in world’s rape list (sic), to remind them daughter is daughter, she is not Indian or British & we have same pain for British too.”[Delhi businessman’s reply to ‘India’s Daughter’ causes online stir]

How is this video a reply to Udwin’s documentary? Did the documentary make you feel the same way? Why?

Do some of us feel better after watching this ‘reply’?

Do we believe that we have ‘proved’ that ‘their’ women are equally unsafe?

How does that deal with the fact that many of us do talk and think like rapists? Or that we continue make non serious and ignorant attempts to control crimes against women? 

Do we still prefer Silence (achieved with Shaming and Blaming the victims) to deal with rapes?

The problem for many, even now, is not rape and how fear of such assaults affects the entire society. How it continues male child preference and skewed gender ratio in India, and how it leads to girl children being denied education and opportunities (in India) and how women are herded indoors, specially after dark. How it also leads to early or child marriages.

The problem for many is not that victims are silenced, while everybody else has lots to say on how the victim could have saved herself from becoming a zindaa laash.

I didn’t see the entire video – because it seems the purpose of the video is to settle scores by showing we aren’t the only ones who don’t care for the rights and safety of almost half the population.

And I think the right ‘reply’ to Leslie Udwin’s would have been to demand reforms that ensure easier reporting of rapes, quicker sentences, fighting against lawyers trying to prove the rape victim deserved the rape, better support for survivors and media campaigns condemning victim blaming and shaming.

Below is the Delhi businessman’s reply to ‘India’s Daughter’,

 Related Posts:

Letting an outsider see or comment upon our imperfections is washing dirty linen in public?

Sexual crimes against women in India continue to be matters of Indian Men’s Honor and Dishonour.

‘In our families, we don’t take this kind of thing outside,’

34 thoughts on ““This is reply to BBC for making video on rape cases in other countries…”

  1. I only watched the start…
    Love the statistic about ‘41% of marriages are broken after just 20 years’.

    It doesnt have anything to with the purported point of the video.. but gives you a good glimpse of how the maker of this video thinks!

    Like

  2. So this Delhi chap is more interested in the rights of foreign women than his own compatriots? He also gets the statistics wrong. It’s not 10% of the women who are sexually victimised. The numbers are as high as 1/3rd of the women in the UK. He’s just pulling stats out of his hat. And how is how many people in old-age homes relevant to rape? Or the divorce rate connected to rape?! The beauty is that there ARE decent government-funded old-age homes in the UK for old people. And you can easily get a no-fault divorce. It’s a GOOD thing!

    That video is terrible. It’s taken snippets from different shows discussing about rape and random clips of women talking about their own experiences. How insensitive can you even get? And those pictures of women in victim positions – it’s stomach-churning!

    At least, take the trouble of CARING for these women who are assaulted and victimised. Their terrible stories don’t exist for satisfying your own feelings of inferiority. It’s not a competition, YOU STUPID JERK! They are real women whose stories you have appropriated (without permission, may I add) for your stupid pointless video. How does this solve crime in India? How is this a reply to BBC? Why aren’t you in some sort of asylum? Gosh, these people are driving me nuts!

    Liked by 3 people

    • Oh but it very much is. Our women are raped less than your women. Our women are less oppressed than your women. Our women don’t frequent bars like your women.

      Its’ a race to the bottom. Social media is rife with blokes who claim that Udwin has no moral authority to make a documentary on Nirbhaya because “85000 rapes cases are reported annually in the UK”.

      It defies logic. So an Indian may not write about inner city poverty in the US because India has a bigger “poverty problem”?

      Liked by 6 people

  3. I think the idea of the response was probably acceptable but definitely not the content. You’re absolutely right when you raise the issue that “Do some of us feel better after watching this ‘reply’? Do we believe that we have ‘proved’ that ‘their’ women are equally unsafe?”

    For many that is the intention of this and many such videos; a way to escape the responsibility of taking action. However, at the same time it (unknowingly) raises an important issue. Why is the West obsessed with our (Third World’s) ills while it glosses over the same issues in their homeland? Is it there desire to carry forth with the “white man’s burden” in an effort to bury their problems or establish that they are still better while we continue to be a land of ‘savages’?

    I was going through a lot of posts online and found scores and scores of comments about how “India was so much better under the British rule” and “OMG! Indians are so sick” etc, etc. While anyone would be disgusted by what has been happening in India is it not wrong to indulge in such horrific mass generalization so much so that you end up justifying a despotic rule based on the race theory? (Refer to the German professor’s email)

    My point is simple- responding to and analyzing the West’s obsession with ‘poverty porn’ and such issues when it comes to certain countries and acknowledging the need for change are not mutually exclusive. You can work towards the betterment of your society and at the same time point towards Western propaganda and biased lenses of viewing India (or any other Third World)!

    Like

    • Loved your comment. I’ve been wanting to use the phrase “poverty porn” too. I haven’t watched the video so I can’t comment but India’s Daughter gave me the same vibe as Slumdog Millionaire.

      Like

  4. so it doesn’t matter how bad we are, as long as someone is worse?
    My fav one…. “Women Don’t Resist the Rape, so Killing Figures are Few” – nice! Why doesn’t he just say it out straight, women in west are ‘loose’ and Nirbhaya shouldn’t have fought rapists, may be they wouldn’t have killed her, or she should have called them bhaiyya and they’d have let her go!

    The marriage stats 41% break down in 20 yrs….. they at least believe in marital rape, wonder where our stats will be if we did the same. And 31% 65+ live in old-age home, the fact the 100% 50+ parent of Indian daughters live alone in poverty thanks to dowry is completely lost. I suppose I could go on and on, but I think I made my point

    Liked by 3 people

  5. I’m not sure what the point of this film is.
    It’s just some stock photos of women protesting & or looking distressed & angry along with statements flashed on the screen like this (original random capitalization, grammar mistakes, & misspellings included)-
    “Women Don’t Resist the Rape so Killing Fighures are a Few”
    “One third of Britons Believe Women are Responsible for Rape”
    “11% Population living Under Poverty Line”
    “31% People Age of 65 or more Living in Old Age Homes”
    “41% Marriages Broken in Just 20 years”
    “Studies Shows that Men who Commit Rape come from every Economic, Ethenic & Social group”
    “Only 10% Rapist are Convicted in U.K. for Rape”
    “250 Women of U.K. raped daily”
    Then a clip from some other UK documentary (credit not given) is inserted for the main part where a female reporter interviews & follows a young British woman through her experience in the UK court system.
    A brief clip of actual rape statistics in the UK.
    A clip from a British TV talk show called ‘Free Speech’ where young people openly talk about rape in British society. (Some clips of a ‘shock jock’ comedian making distasteful & offensive jokes about sexually assaulting women).
    Then this statement is flashed on the screen-
    “A reply to BBC that Daughter is Daughter, She is not Indian or British we have same pain for British also”
    -Harvinder Singh
    As a ‘gori’ I don’t really find any of this documentary particularly ‘damning’ nor enlightening.
    I do wonder where Mr Singh got his information for these statements-
    “Women Don’t Resist the Rape so Killing Fighures are a Few”
    “One third of Britons Believe Women are Responsible for Rape”

    Like

  6. I am afraid that our old habit of sweeping all the nastiness under the carpet and pretending that the problem is hence fixed is to blame.

    http://www.quora.com/Indias-Daughter-2015-movie/Why-are-some-Indians-so-furious-about-the-BBC-documentary-Indias-Daughter-Why-did-the-government-of-India-ban-this-documentary-film

    I was so disheartened when I read this Quora thread. Indian women frothing at the mouth because Leslee Udwin was “tarnishing the image of Indian men” who “protect us and take care of us”.😦

    It’s like ignoring the elephant in the room.

    Liked by 1 person

  7. Not able to understand the motive of the video at all. And why divorce figures and old age figure was included.

    How does it makes my situation better by this reply. Isn’t this kind of attitude responsible for crime against women . You did to my sister wait I will do it your sister.

    Don’t we try to satisfy our superiority complex by denying sexual crimes and saying it doesn’t exist. Aren’t they better in admitting that something is going wrong?

    One more question ” Do women feel more safe in New Delhi compared to London “.
    I haven’t travelled to London but I can say about NCR that its horror for women to travel after 8 even with parents.

    Like

    • I travel back home with my teenaged daughter as late as 11 or 12, using public transport. I travel alone in public transport back home from class every week, at around a similar time.
      Never feel any danger/threat.

      Like

  8. Yeh that is the mentality..though people are horrified with what they’v seen in Udwin’s documentary, the argument is like, “we can wash our own dirty linen in public. Why should someone else from some country come and do this and portray us so badly?. Now people are talking more about the ban rather than the issue” Educated women who otherwise would fight and have fought their own domestic battles argue that way.

    And Shoba De had this to say to Leslee Udwin

    http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/politically-incorrect/enjoy-your-fame-and-spare-us-the-sermons-leslee-2/?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=TOI

    Why is it that some people just miss the whole and important issue here? Rape and horrific instances of rape have happened everywhere. But for India, this case is/was the first horrific rape to come out in the open and people were astounded and horrified as to how these 5 men could do what they did after raping Jyothi Singh. So my take is that Udwin might have wanted to really get into the mind of rapisits to find out why they did what they did and to also how the mindset of our men–luckily she caught on camera all that venom that was spewed against women in the name of tradition and culture. Instead of accepting that we have a serious problem and trying to work towards a solution, most people are getting defensive and want to take up a tit for tat approach.

    Like

    • Wait a minute, wasn’t Ms. De lauding Leslee Udwin a while ago? And frankly, through this article, she did exactly what she accused Udwin off – piggybacking on someone else’s popularity.

      Like

  9. “There is no shame in admitting it exists. Shame lies in the act of NOT speaking out. A ban serves no purpose in addressing the reality of the situation. It only makes one question if we truly can boast to be a democracy that allows freedom of choice, expression and speech. We need to know what we are up against in order to deftly and strategically deal with the ongoing sickness of certain mindsets.”
    http://www.indiatimes.com/news/india/this-blog-by-frida-pinto-on-sexual-violence-is-the-strongest-thing-youll-read-on-the-internet-230989.html

    Like

  10. I was so disheartened, and ashamed, after seeing this trend on twitter. The hashtag had some appalling tweets. Running away from our problems like this is not the answer.

    Like

  11. I kinda don’t understand the hypocrisy here. Why none of us reacted the same way to Slumdog Millionaire but to India’s daughter. Both were undertaken by foreign banners, both had quite similar portrals of women and both had huge audiences.. Why such a strong reaction to the later? because the later is a bitter truth that punches you so hard in the face? truth hurts, right?

    Like

    • The adverse reaction in this case could also be because Delhi does not represent India in terms of access of women to public spaces/women’s safety etc.

      Women in Southern and Western Indian Metros do feel safer than in NCR at public spaces though this could be a relative word and certainly no place in India is as safe as in the big cities of Western World. But making a documentary that generalizes Delhi and equates to rest of India is in a way unfair to places in India which are relatively safer for womein in public spaces – Kerala, Karnataka, NE India and some other Indian cities down South.

      And to be fair it is not just about this documentary. Media and Intellectuals do the generalizations in every occasion. Bollywood is thus Indian Film Industry never mind a thriving Film Industry in South India. AAP and previously Janata Parivar represent the nation despite fact that they have zero presence outside few Northern States. IT Revolution is not an all India phenomenon either, with many North/North eastern States untouched by the software job creators.

      Like

      • Ummmm, no.

        Southern metros are not safer. Kids have been regularly sexually abused in Bangalore schools in recent times. Take any city in Kerala or TN and they have some of the highest street harassment in India. AP has one of the worst, most prevalent, and highest dowry system in the country. So please don’t generalise the “South”. I don’t know much about NE India, but the South is just as bad as the North.

        There is this tendency to demonise Delhi as the rape capital, and perhaps quite justifiably. But if that makes people think that other cities are safer, that’s a false comparison.

        Like

        • True.
          I cannot talk about the NE as I have never been there, but south is by no means safer or better. I grew up in Hyderabad and spent most of my holidays at my grandparents town (Vijayawada) and I have had horrible experiences at both these places. In fact the town was worse because nobody could talk about it; my own cousin was molested by an “UNCLE” who was very well respected and when she cried and told my aunt, the matter was immediately dismissed and this girl was undergoing so much mental trauma, forget getting the abuser out, my cousin was not even comforted by people and then some great people actually said that she might have attracted him and done something and blamed her!!!!!!!!
          Then I moved to Pondicherry to study, same case there,so many girls would be teased at the bus stops, girls would wear duppattas like bedsheets just to avoid stares, no jeans and sleeveless tops, no leaving hair open, I can just go on and on….
          And then I moved to Baltimore in the US which has a very high crime rate, and even here I have been stared at, but it’s minimal or at least something that does not bother me because my skin has now become thick thanks to all my “homely experiences”.

          Liked by 1 person

      • How would you find out what went wrong without a little analysis on what happened? How would you educate people to think better, without telling them how rapists and other oppressors think? What is the big deal about a documentary on what happened? Aren’t there so many movies based on “true stories”?

        I only see that there is so much to learn from this. I am not ashamed to accept that this movie is made out of what happened in our country. But I am very much ashamed that we are all refusing to owning up to to it and refuse to learn from our mistakes, but try to hide it altogether.

        Like

      • If you are saying South is nicer, then no ….OK maybe in hi fi pockets !
        Even I used to think naively how south Indian are so well read,women work outside the house etc ….few months in Bangalore changed everything ! Women were rarely seen alone after 7 in residential areas,some girls (colleagues mostly) used to be escorted by family everywhere…. Even markets !
        I went on trip to Kerala and though the scenery was beautiful ….walking on the road was horrible ! I obviously look like non south Indian !
        In short, I didn’t like south India,language was a problem and so were prejudices ! I got to see closely how hypocrisy is so seeped in there …..women work outside but at home they are second class very traditional roles ! The middle class women seemed worst of than me , a middle class Muslim woman !

        Like

    • Oh but there WAS similar outrage over Slumdog Millionaire, something about showing a bad side of India, poverty porn etc. I remember a politician or someone declaring that it was all lies, and that there was not one child beggar who had been blinded on purpose ever. A lot of Indians are just extremely immature/defensive about any criticism whatsoever and so-called “unbalanced” portrayals.

      Like

  12. This retaliatory film is badly made, not very credible and pieces together random bits of information. Old age homes/divorce rates – what’s the connection here? Looks like Singh is trying to loop in “culture” now, although am not sure where he is going with that.

    How does this film prove anything? Yes, there are rapes in the UK, and we feel for those victims just as we do for any victim of any nationality. Singh, with this film, cheapens the whole debate. If this film had been made independently to showcase a problem that would have been ok. But to make it as a “reply” is pretty disgusting – women’s bodies and their issues are not your domain, to pick and choose from, to assuage your feelings or to “win” points against a perceived insult to your honor/country.

    Singh’s mentality IS the problem.

    Liked by 3 people

  13. The inclusion of divorce and old-age figures is a clear indicator that despite the creator’s claims to the contrary, the video is essentially a form of cultural whataboutery. The film-maker has seen the Udwin’s documentary as an attack on his culture, and has responded by saying, “Yes, but what about your problems?”.

    Unfortunately, in the wake of the original documentary, such attitudes have flourished not just in India but in the West as well. While “India’s daughter” was meant to inspire a discussion about rape and rape culture in Indian society, some Western commentators – as Kavita Krishnan has pointed out – seem to have instead seen it as a comforting narrative on how things are so much worse ‘over there’.
    Obviously, such comfort is quite misplaced; rape is indeed very much a global issue and the UK in particular has fairly complex systemic issues of its own. Much has been written about the latter (e.g. Temkin & Krahe and of course, Schwartz, DeKeseredy, Tait & Alvi).

    What makes me truly uncomfortable about “UK’s Daughter” is its blatant disingenuity. While it claims to be a documentary of sorts, it actually seems to be motivated by a desire for cultural vindication; there’s nothing wrong with making a documentary about rape in the UK, but there’s something very wrong when such documentaries are traded between countries and cultures like a particularly sordid game of antakshari.

    The need of the hour is to respond to the challenge of rape (and other forms of gendered violence) with maturity, sensitivity, compassion and understanding. Rape is a serious issue in practically every country in the world, and hollow cultural chauvinism has no role to play in its discussion. To devolve the discussion into a childish competition over who has the worse rape problem, is to do a vast disservice not just to victims, but also to those who have worked over the years to continually evolve our understanding of the problem.

    Finally for someone who claims to be so concerned about victims of sexual assault, the businessman seems to have remarkably few qualms about exploiting victims’ stories and identities to make a point on YouTube. Hypocrisy or privilege – take your pick.

    Liked by 2 people

  14. I didn’t watch the entire video … couldn’t bear to sit through the pointlessness of it. In the first 10 minutes, what stands out is –
    – atrocious grammar
    – irrelevant remarks (about divorce rate)
    – wrong statistics
    – stolen pieces of footage
    – incongruent music (music is uplifting but message is disheartening or meant to be so)

    Like

  15. Will the British government ban this “film”? I guess not, ‘cos they have better things to do.

    It’s amazing how immature, entitled Indian men and their enablers manage to make everything all about them all the time, every time.

    Like

  16. This was a well written article that sums up the situation by a young Indian woman-

    “Why I Had To Leave India Alone”

    “Leave India alone, not because the society exhibits one of the most regressive attitudes towards women, but because what is the point when so many people in power refuse to accept that there is a problem. Leave India alone, not because practices like child marriage, dowry, female infanticide, are still prevalent here and have resulted in a disturbing male-to-female ratio, but because if there is someway to attach blame to the Western world, then our leaders will ensure that they scream so with all their might. Leave India alone, because while women are abused in forms other than rape, people think that worldwide statistics speak louder than their mothers’, sisters’, daughters’ or wives’ daily struggles. Or if there is any country that has a worse off statistic than India, then it somehow makes the issue more tolerable. Leave India alone, because no matter how much people genuinely care, the fact that you are not Indian (or are an Indian living outside India) always makes you an outsider to the pain felt by her people.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ketaki-desai/leave-india-alone_b_6860584.html

    Liked by 3 people

  17. Most Indian men are comfortable in partriarchy set up for it provides all the superior rights to men. They try to protect this set up by calling it their great culture and bashing Feminism at every post on FB. For such men, feminism is a threat to their great culture and they will lose their precious place in society.
    I am literally tired of explaining on FB posts that Feminism has nothing to do with Male-bashing or making women superior over men. Feminism is all about equality by shedding various taboos of society but they dont seem to agree. So now I have stopped trying to make them understand what feminism is all about. Few months ago there was a news post on TOI about an honour killing in Haryana, There were lot of comments from Dahiyas, Chaudharies who were justifying the killing and were ready to bow down to salute to that father who slaughtered the couple. It was frightening to see huge number of comments justifying honour killing and demanding from every father that every father should kill their daughter who elopes with boys outside their caste or who marries in same gotr. When majority of India’s youth support such set up, how can we ensure safety of women.

    Like

    • Many men believe that power is a zero sum game. If women have more power, it will automatically lead to men having less of it.

      Let’s face it. Most chauvinistic men know very well that feminism does not advocate the supremacy of the female gender. The real intention behind the feminism bashing is to discredit it so that it doesn’t threaten the status quo.

      Most women stay away from feminism because they don’t want to face unpleasant reprisals from the men in their life. Who wants to be called a man-hater at family gatherings?

      Any man who discredits feminism really has an ulterior agenda — that of preserving the status quo.

      Everybody knows that the arch-feminist is an old, bitter, ugly, short-haired man-hater. Feminism is deliberately demonized so that it doesn’t attract widespread followers.

      Imagine the revolution that would take place over night, if every woman in the world endorsed feminism and refused to tolerate ANY injustice. Centuries of domination would evaporate.

      Women are very powerful, but they are kept unaware of their power.

      As of now, Indian men have an endless supply of roti-makers and baby-makers who arrive with wads of cash, few expectations and fewer rights.

      For Indian men, it’s a pretty sweet deal. Primacy within the home and primacy outside it. Who would want to voluntarily give up a truckload of privileges?

      Also, many Indian men have such a gigantic sense of entitlement that a woman defying expectations is seen to be issuing an intolerable challenge.

      Nirbhaya’s actions, innocent as they were, were interpreted by the rapists as a challenge to male supremacy, and she had to be swiftly punished and “taught a lesson”.

      Sita had to be “taught a lesson”, as was Draupadi, Shoorpanakha, Ahilya — all women who defied expectations and refused to be meek.

      Like

  18. This is true… as mentioned in your blog post.. ” How do men (and women) in patriarchal societies respond to anything they perceive as dishonour? “With retaliation…”

    Like

  19. Pingback: Identity | The Life and Times of an Indian Homemaker

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s