“…you think I am unworthy of you. That’s a crime that can never be forgiven.”

This is probably what goes on in the minds of those who stab, burn-alive, honor kill, attack with acid, or punish/teach lessons with sexual assaults made into videos and shared online.

These probably are also the thoughts of some of the younger Indian men, disappointed in love, some of who claim to be moral policing women (and the men women like).

I think it is easier to get away with such ‘retribution’ in India – many voices are likely to rise in ‘understanding’ the violence, or atleast there would be some focus and condemnation of the women (and of the non alpha men women like) who ‘provoke’ such attacks.

From the video shared below:

“Girls all I ever wanted was to love you, and to be loved by you. I wanted a girl friend, wanted sex, wanted love, affection, adoration… you think I am unworthy of you? That’s a crime that can never be forgiven.

All those girls that I’ve desired so much, they would’ve all rejected me and looked down on me as an inferior man if I ever made a sexual advance towards them,

I’ll take great pleasure in slaughtering all of you. 

You will finally see that I am, in truth, the superior one. The true alpha male…

So in retribution, Elliot Rodger, 22, killed six people and injured seven more and later died from a gunshot wound to his head, in California.

In this video he explains why he wanted to kill the girls that he ‘desired so much’, and the men they seemed to like better.

The following content has been identified by the YouTube community as being potentially offensive or graphic. Viewer discretion is advised.

Desi Girl shared this reaction. Thank You DG. 

Elliot Rodger And Men Who Hate Women

‘We don’t know if Elliot Rodger was mentally ill. We don’t know if he was a “madman.” We do know that he was desperately lonely and unhappy, and that the Men’s Rights Movement convinced him that his loneliness and unhappiness was intentionally caused by women. Because this is what the Men’s Rights Movement does: it spreads misogyny, it spreads violence, and most of all it spreads a sense of entitlement towards women’s bodies. Pretending that this is the a rare act perpetrated by a “crazy” person is disingenuous and also does nothing to address the threat of violence that women face every day. We can’t just write this one off – we need to talk about all of the fucked up parts of our culture, especially the movements that teach men that they have the right to dominate and intimidate and violate women, and we need to change things. Because if we don’t, I guarantee that this will happen again. And again. And again.’

I do agree. This sense of entitlement is reinforced by the patriarchal owning of women (by marriage, as fathers, as community elders), their bodies, their lives and choices. Is it very difficult to imagine why this young man felt women deserved to be punished for not finding him ‘worthy’?

Related Posts:

Do you see a connection between this murder and the assault in Guwahati?

Girls retaliate this time. But will the lectures on culture ever stop?
Immoral policing: A guest post by Carvaka

Not just women who are sexually assaulted, but also men who object to sexual assaults risk being accused of ruining the Indian culture.

Haryana killing : Here is a father A P Singh might want to defend.

How illegal bans on Valentine’s day and birthday parties are connected with dowry deaths and sex selection.

Are Men Threatened By Women?

45 thoughts on ““…you think I am unworthy of you. That’s a crime that can never be forgiven.”

  1. Journalist Matthew Keys took a screen shot of one of the threads, in which Rodger says “feminism is evil.”

    Sraboney shared the screen shot of the issue this Men’s Rights activist has with feminists,
    “Women have control over which men get sex and which men don’t, thus having control over which men breed and which men don’t,” the user writes. “Feminism gave women the power over the future of the human species. Feminism is evil.”

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/05/24/315624700/alleged-shooter-in-california-left-vast-digital-trail

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  2. Being 22 and being a virgin was a problem? He must have not known a lot of desi dudes.

    But then desi dudes walk around assured that it’ll eventually happen via arranged marriage. Hmm.

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  3. You know we, as women and feminists have to dismiss people like this as mad but the frightening truth is that there are so many people out there who truly believe that it’s ok to take revenge on unknown women for some imagined slight or rejection. Our Bollywood movies are rampant with this lack of understanding of women’s rights or women’s agency. I honestly agree with you IHM when you say that it would probably be much easier to get away with such a crime in India.
    I read this brilliant tweet with the tag #yesallwomen that said ‘Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.’ Puts it into proportion a bit, doesn’t it?

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    • It’s easy to hypothetically state that such a crime would be easier to get away with in India, but then, this crime happened in the USA.
      Do you have any single historical example of a man going on a murderous rampage in India, specifically to avenge rejection by women?

      We have our own problems male-on-female vengeance (acid attacks, rape and so on) but multiple revengeful homicides, american style, is something we do not see.

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      • Ironically, we may not have one guy attacking a bunch of women but we often see a bunch of men attacking one woman. Whether it’s acid attacks or whatever other ‘revenge’ tactic. Sadly most of them do get away with it.

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        • On a tangential note, we see high-heeled men and women killing several innocent bystanders. I don’t see anything being done against them as well.

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      • I think that we do not see rampage in India precisely because they can get away with the acid attacks and rapes. There is no need for the misogynists to go into self-destruct mode.

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      • Desi Daru, the acid attacks that are so common in India have the same pathology at work, don’t they?

        It’s all about entitlement. How dare a woman say no to ME? He shot his victims. Acid attackers burn and maim their victims. They condemn them to a lifetime of suffering and social ostracisation. All because they said no.

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  4. Great article. I just read some excerpts from a manifesto that Elliot Rodger had written, and it really is a chilling read. (Link has some graphic and potentially disturbing content)
    http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimdalrympleii/the-bizarre-and-horrifying-autobiography-of-a-mass-shooter

    There seem to be a lot of people who think Elliot was mentally ill. I disagree with that. Not only does that downplay that amount of misogyny that is rampant everywhere, but it also does a great disservice to genuinely mentally ill people who are not necessarily violent. It is a way of shifting individual responsibility onto the government, healthcare institutions, etc.

    On a related note, regarding the Men’s Rights activists, I found this question and the following answers really illuminating (especially the first answer)
    http://www.quora.com/Should-mens-rights-groups-exist-Why

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    • The Quora answers are pretty good and spot-on regarding the Men’s Rights activists. We need Men’s Rights groups but to address Men specific issues and not to promote hatred against women as they currently do. We are in fact fighting the same thing “Patriarchy” and “stereotypes” so that the World becomes a better place to live for all of us.

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      • For a change, I read some healthy, respectful discussion on Quora. I’m tired of getting into online fights over there with Indian MRA types.

        I think a lot of men carry unconscious, latent anger towards women. I was reading this essay last month about it.

        http://freethoughtblogs.com/hetpat/2013/06/06/malestrom-ten-reasons-why-some-men-are-so-angry/#comment-78810

        It makes no sense. Men in India resent women because we prefer arranged marriages to “well-settled men with good jobs”. Men in the West resent women because they won’t go on dates with them and sleep with them.

        Isn’t it part of growing up to realize that one cannot control other people’s decisions or preferences? Doesn’t one learn to deal with rejection and heartbreak somewhere along the way?

        Killing women because they won’t sleep with you? Throwing acid on their faces because they reject your advances. Such men seem to be stuck in a non-adult developmental stage.

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    • That first answer was so very on point. It is exactly my belief. And one of the most important things that people need to realize is that the issues that face men disproportionately are not issues that are perpetuated by a hypothetical matriarchal society. They are issues that stem directly from patriarchal beliefs of traditional masculinity. And the MRA movement, as it stands at present, is not interested in addressing those beliefs. If they were, they would not spend their time sending rape threats and abuse to the women who want to dismantle the system that hurts them, even as they continue to benefit from it. From what I have seen, the MRA movement is vastly much more interested in preserving the status quo and tearing down women than they are in helping the men they claim to represent. They do not exist to help men.

      It’s also interesting to note that of the male victims of abuse and sexual assault that I have met, not a single one of them stand in solidarity with the MRA as it exists today. Many have openly spoken about how, when they spoke about their experiences, they were ridiculed and dismissed outright, not by other women (although women have dismissed them as well), but by the same men who call themselves MRA. For the MRA, the issues that men face are not worth fighting for on their own right, but are only worth anything in the context of tearing down the experiences and suffering of women by loudly shouting, “What about the men?!?!”. And in the process, what they are doing is damaging and trivializing the experiences that men have as a result of patriarchy by using them as a prop and a tool.

      There was an interesting blog post (http://bit.ly/1gCTBpK) I read, that was written by a male survivor of abuse that expresses a lot of what I believe in. The comments were interesting as well. It’s amazing how, when one survivor has the courage to speak out, many others step forward as well. I saw this with the Twitter hashtag #YesAllWomen. I hope that men who are victims will also be able to open up one day in a public sphere without facing ridicule.

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  5. He might have been mentally insane. i cant dismiss that at all, I agree that patriarchy etc., entitles men to womens bodies but I also think mental illness plays a part, it is a combination of both, I see a lot of men being rejected by women and who are angry , not all of them go on a murder spree. So yes, we have to educate men but we also have to take note that there are a lot of mentally ill people who are wandering around without treatment or even a diagnosis. and country that strives to be great must take care of it’s sick , weak and poor. hopefully things will move in that direction.

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  6. Is it fair to use isolated lunatics to make a point about all men or even all members of the Men’s rights movement?

    I beg to remind you of feminist Valerie Solanas who founded the SCUM society (SCUM = Society for Cutting Up Men). Yes, it’s true. You should read Solanas’ SCUM manifesto. Its not very different from what this guy Rodger wrote. As part of her project to kill all men, she decided to start with Andy Warhol, shot at him thrice…the bullets went through his lungs, stomach and liver.

    No rational person would ever consider Valerie Solanas to be representative of the feminist movement as a whole. It is sad to see you and some of your commenters trying to suggest that Rodger is representative of the entire Men’s Rights movement.

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    • Hi Sumit, I can name a handful of men who have gone on shooting sprees killing random women in just the last few years, citing hatred of women.

      Can you name a SINGLE woman in all of feminist history (~150 years at least) who has killed random men, citing hatred of men?

      I rest my case.

      You MRAs like to fantasize that feminism is a “militant” ideology, but the truth is the feminism is entirely nonviolent and has nothing to do with men at all (let alone hating men being the central focus).

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    • I agree to a large extent. This also reminds me of the terror unfolded by Adam Lanza, a psychologically disturbed guy with Aspergers syndrome. He gunned down several kinder-garden kids after killing his mom. There was a call out to the public to not perceive all Aspergers patients as psychopaths and potential killers. These are extreme cases and hopefully/thankfully rare. The more troubling issue is the easy access of high caliber guns which in the wrong hands can cause so much tragedy.

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    • It’s funny you say that Elliot Rodger is not representative of the MRA. Are you aware of how many men sympathize and express solidarity with the views that he expressed in that video? Not MRAs. Men. Not only was he sympathized with, the entitlement that he feels and expresses towards women’s attention is also expressed by many men across various platforms. Nearly every woman I have spoken to has, at some point, been victimized by a man who shares Elliot Rodger’s views in a milder manner, or at least believes that he was deserving (not worthy) of women’s attention because he was a man.

      Women are well aware that not every single male in this world is a killer. But that is not the point. The point is that every woman in the world has, at some point, been a victim of a man who shares on some level the same views as Elliot Rodger’s. Elliot Rodger’s is simply an example of that type of belief taken to its extreme and bitter end. But just because MRA as well as many men hold a much milder version of his views doesn’t mean that those views are not toxic or damaging to the women around them, or that there aren’t people who continue to be casualties of such views. The belief that men have entitlement or autonomy over women or other human beings is toxic, and irrespective of the way in which it is expressed (whether that’s by dismissing a woman’s refusal as simply playing “hard to get” or murdering them for rejecting you), that belief still needs to end.

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      • ” The point is that every woman in the world has, at some point, been a victim of a man who shares on some level the same views as Elliot Rodger’s. Elliot Rodger’s is simply an example of that type of belief taken to its extreme and bitter end. ”

        With all due respect, I think is a highly spurious argument. Nearly every belief system on this planet when stretched to its extreme will have a bitter end. Hence, by your logic, every human being on the planet shares “on some level” the views of an extremist.

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        • “Nearly every belief system on this planet when stretched to its extreme will have a bitter end.”

          True. But there is a fundamental difference between someone holding an extreme view on one half of the population and using it as a way to deny them their humanity and someone holding an extreme view that is the exact opposite. Would you say that both things would come to the same bitter end? Do you think that someone who holds the view that all human beings are equal and that everyone deserves respect would take it to the same extreme as Elliot Rodgers (and countless other people like him) did, by taking up a gun and eliminating lives? No. There is a difference between taking a viewpoint that wishes harm and inhumanity on someone to its bitter extreme and taking a viewpoint that is harmless and quite good for humanity to its extreme. They wouldn’t manifest in the same way, and to say that they are the same or would be the same is an oversimplification.

          “Hence, by your logic, every human being on the planet shares “on some level” the views of an extremist.”

          You do realize that differences in the level of intensity that someone has with regards to an opinion doesn’t negate the fact that someone else shares a similar opinion, right? If someone believes that as a male, they are “owed” something in return for behaving politely and decently to women, they are in fact, expressing an opinion similar to Elliot Rodger’s, irrespective of the fact that you haven’t picked up a gun to go on a killing spree. If they believe that men are “owed” something period by the universe for the simple reason that they are men, then yes, that is an opinion that they unfortunately have in common with Elliot Rodgers and his kind. It doesn’t make the views wholly difference just because one person though it well and good to take other people’s lives in the process of expressing his opinion. The opinions are still the same, and this fact about how woefully common such views are (and how they are excused continuously because most people don’t express them in a violent manner and therefore they are “harmless”) needs to be acknowledged.

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  7. Couldn’t watch more than 2 minutes… Is this for real? But really, that guy is crazy. Actually they all are. Im not dumping responsibility on healthcare. Honestly, doesnt he seem crazy?
    But we shouldn’t condemn Men’s Right Group (though I know nothing about it). I remember reading about such a group fighting against Bacha Baazi in Afghanistan.
    Just as some man hating females call themselves as ‘feminists’, some in these groups too are sure to misogynistic.

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  8. I think women, and feminists especially, should not forget that men are human beings, and teenagers are very fragile, perhaps even more boys than girls. Woman, girls usually express themselves better, while men and boys use their body to express their feelings.

    In the battle of the sexes, there is no winner.

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    • Patriarchy constantly reinforces that women are supposed to be emotional, expressive and repress their sexuality (Slut shaming. Enough said.) Men are told that they have to have ‘machismo’ by constantly asserting their sexuality, can never express their emotions or, god forbid, cry!
      Don’t validate what Elliot Rodgers has done, just because patriarchy allows man to ‘use his body’. Typical victim blaming.
      I think feminists are the last people to forget that men are human beings who are also affected by patriarchy. The fight is against society, NOT MEN.

      DO NOT CONFUSE FEMINISM WITH MISANDRY. (caps for emphasis)

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    • “and teenagers are very fragile, perhaps even more boys than girls. ”

      Whose fault do you think it is, that this fact about boys being equally (if not more) fragile than girls is ignored? It’s not the feminists who created and express this belief. It is patriarchy who reinforces this belief that men (especially teenage boys who are on the cusp of becoming men) need to act in a “macho” man’s man kind of way. Feminism, if anything, is fighting to dismantle this belief that cages men as much as it cages women into narrow, defined roles.

      “Woman, girls usually express themselves better, while men and boys use their body to express their feelings.”

      I liked your first point, but this sentence is confusing to me. You wrote about how men often do not fall into the confined gender roles that society assigns them, but in your second sentence you reinforce the same gender roles? And again, this idea is not a fact of life. It is artificially created and reinforced by a system that devalues the idea of expressing one’s sentiments and feelings verbally (because don’t you know, that’s what women do, and being called a woman is the biggest insult).

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  9. This is a huge story in North America right now and feminists such as myself are up in arms. More than gun control, more than mental illness – what really needs to be discussed is misogyny – plain and simple.
    This young man felt he was entitled to women’s bodies and that just because he wanted to sleep with girls, they should also sleep with him and give in to him. What is it about this guy that his masculinity could not take the rejection? Was his masculinity that vulnerable and that fragile for him to slaughter people in revenge? And WHY did he think it was the worst thing in the world to be a virgin? What exactly is wrong with being a virgin? Losing one’s virginity seems to be some sort of race / pissing contest for these young men, something that apparently defines their masculinity. He thinks any woman he is interested in should be entitled to sleep with him, despite their own want. He objectifies women and young girls as sexual objects, as objects only for his pleasure.
    That is what happens when you objectify women – they become less human.
    The whole thing is very, very troubling….
    And how is it that this man can make manifestos hating women and threatening to kill and nobody does anything about it? Oh yes, because hating women online is normal!!!!!!!!!!

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      • “He is mentally Ill. Nothing else.”

        Women are much more susceptible to mental illness. Yet you almost never see them going on a shooting spree. Funny how that works.

        Also, it would be lovely if we could stop characterizing violent behaviour as “mentally ill”. Those two things are not the same.

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      • @someone – otherwise known as clearly MALE. I am so glad that you are so privileged by being male that you can completely ignore the fact that the killer was an absolute misogynist. I am so glad that it is a boring issue to you in your patriarchal universe. Vomit.

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  10. What is feminism ? I m not asking the dictionary definition, but its definition based on the actions of feminists ? Feminism is movement that spreads men-hatred, a misandric movement that just propogates the female victimization.

    How it works ? Here are some of the common traits of feminists everywhere- 1. Only and only report crime against women, even if necessary find news that happens in far corners of the world. 2. Ignore crimes against men. Dismiss them by saying there are only few cases out of their own ignorance or denial. 3. If there are things by which it can be shown that men are also suprressed by spciety in many different ways then dont discuss about it, just put the blame on them saying its coz of patriarchy.

    This case which is reported here is a perfect example of how feminists just selectively report and operate. This moron who murdered so many innocents, his crime has nothing to do with his gender. Their have been many such psychotic people- both male and females even in the past. AND LASTLY, this guy has murdered 2 3 men also. Check out this news in CNN. Also if you want you can check avoiceformen to see this has nothing to do with MRM.

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    • “Ignore crimes against men.”

      You do realize that the reason why crimes against men are “ignored” is because they are so often under reported? And the reason this is so is because of the patriarchal belief that men need to be “strong” and not behave like victims and admitting that one has been victimized for whatever reason looks “weak” and “not manly enough”? It is not feminists who commit crimes against men and hush them up. It is patriarchy that continues to perpetuate this belief that men must “act strong” and put on a tough face, and that any man who does not fall in with this idea is not a man at all.

      “If there are things by which it can be shown that men are also suprressed by spciety in many different ways then dont discuss about it, just put the blame on them saying its coz of patriarchy.”

      Who is not discussing it? Feminists are open to discussing the ways in which patriarchy affects men. The difference is that even as patriarchy affects men, it also overwhelmingly benefits them at the expense of women. Pointing out this simple fact is not “putting the blame on them”. It is the truth. Even as men are told to hush up about the abuse they suffer, they also continue to be told that it’s okay and normal to abuse and exploit women, and that it is their “right” to be owed female attention, even when the woman in question does not consent to it. The point is that men benefit by and large, while there are little to no benefits for women.

      “is crime has nothing to do with his gender”

      Are you actually serious? Did you not listen to his manifesto? Or even read the articles?

      “Their have been many such psychotic people- both male and females even in the past.”

      True. But why are you excusing his actions by saying this? Does that make it okay, that such psychotic people have existed in the past? Does this make it so that his actions are completely devoid of motive and now exist in a vacuum? No. In no way does the fact that such people have existed ever excuse his actions or the reasons behind them. And the reason why this specific case is highlighted is because of the overwhelming evidence of his misogyny as well as the fact that there is finally a platform and an audience for women to openly discuss these things and be heard for a change.

      “this guy has murdered 2 3 men also”

      Yes, because, surprise surprise, patriarchy also affects men. This was a man who wanted to assert his “alpha” status that would exalt him over other men, which is patriarchal ideology. And also, it is not nearly as simple as him murdering four other men. Elliot Rodgers, in addition to being a misogynist, was also a racist. There are more layers to why he murdered those men that have to do with cultural perceptions of what it means to be male and who he thought was the ideal man and who wasn’t. Funnily enough, the men who patriarchy deems as “not manly enough” are also those who face abuse along the same lines as women. Weird how that works, isn’t it? It’s almost as if it’s patriarchy that reinforces these stereotypes and cages and not feminists. Huh.

      Liked by 1 person

      • The guy killed 4 men for some stupid reasons just like he killed women for stupid reasons. He is a psycopath and his actions has nothing to do with his gender and patriarchy. The way feminists are actually showing this incident and reporting it, its more like they are actually celebrating it. Thats the reason why feminism will always be utter garbage.

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        • “Thats the reason why feminism will always be utter garbage.”

          What’s garbage is the fact that a man killed six people because of the fact that he hates one half of the world’s population. What’s garbage is the fact that people continue to be murdered by those who hold the same opinions this man has. Willful ignorance is also garbage, but that’s really the business of the individual.

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  11. This guy was a misanthrope, he hated all of human species equally. If you hadn’t listened closely, at the beginning he said “revenge against humanity” and At 6:38, he said he will annihilate those men who are living better happy lives. He killed 4 men and two women, so IHM please do not just pick and choose, you are spreading the same kind of populist hate that media has been doing for a long time now. It will only result in strained relationship between the sexes, and it will be hard to undo the damages.

    Like

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