What do Dev and Muthalik have in common?

So, what do Dev and Muthalik have in common, apart from the trust shown in them by those we have voted to represent us? 

Please note, for many Indians beating a woman (just like any other crime against women) is permitted if the assailants are suitably provoked.

पीटा ही था, रेप तो नहीं कियाः प्रमोद मुत्तालिक ( I had just assaulted/beaten them, atleast I did not rape them: Pramod Muthalik)

http://navbharattimes.indiatimes.com/india/national-india/Thrashing-women-was-wrong-but-the-intentions-were-right-Pramod-Muthalik/articleshow/32601170.cms (in Hindi)

Dev the actor-turned-politician.

“You either shout or enjoy rape, says Trinamool’s glamour candidate”

[Read more here]

 

Talking to Bengali tabloid Ebela, the actor-turned-politician said: “Eighty to ninety per cent of the media is now focussing on Ghatal. The news that Dev is contesting from Ghatal has become a hot topic. It is nice that a place like Ghatal has also become popular.”

 

Is he enjoying the moment? To this, Dev said he is feeling as if he is being raped. “You either enjoy or you shout,” the interview quoted him as saying.

So what do they have in common?

1. Neither of them seems to see rape as a serious criminal sexual assault.

2. They don’t seem to have any concept of consent in a sexual activity.

3. They probably assume that women’s consent is not relevant hence it is possible (thinks Dev) for someone being sexually assaulted to enjoy the assault.

4. Muthalik actually doesn’t think women should participate in consensual sexual activity at all, unless other people approve of the activity (in which case, again, their consent has no value, because their family elders have consented on their behalf).

Why are they so ignorant about something that they seem to talk so easily about?

I suspect one reason is that there is no talk of women’s consent in any activity – their careers, pregnancies, marriages, sex lives; and also because even today, many don’t see anything wrong with the fact that marital rape is not a crime, but consensual sexual activity between two consenting teenagers is a crime in this country. It can confuse someone who has never given it much thought.

Panchayat orders girl to marry her rapist because one way to make a Rape right is to make it Marital Rape.

Making Marital Rape a legal offence is the fastest way to make it clear that Rape means forced sex, not lost Virginity or Honor.

Where Consensual Sex is Rape, and Forced Sex a legal right.

* * *

But here is something positive, a small but powerful step.

Shakti Mills gang-rape case: Judge slams 2-finger test, identity parade

… strongly reprimanded JJ Hospital for conducting the “unscientific archaic two-finger test” during the survivor’s medical examination.

Principal judge Shalini Phansalkar-Joshi said, “The Maharashtra government had come out with new guidelines and protocols on May 10 last year. These new guidelines and protocols have done away with unscientific and heavily criticized two-finger tests. The need is for the proper implementation of these guidelines.

 

“Medical procedures should not be carried out in a manner that constitutes cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment and health should be of paramount consideration while dealing with gender-based violence. Undoubtedly, the two-finger test and its interpretation violate the right of rape survivors to privacy, physical and mental integrity and dignity.”

 

The court also criticized the manner in which the test identification parade (TIP) of the convicts was conducted. “Asking the rape victim to identify the suspect face to face by pointing a finger at him totally overlooks the mental trauma of the victim. One can imagine the situation where the victim is brought face to face with the rapist to identify him, that too within a few days of having faced tremendous trauma in a brutal incident,” the judge said. She further pointed out that it was necessary to conduct the TIP by video link to avoid the woman’s trauma. ”

 

Related Posts:

More about Muthalik,
This is not Democracy but Gundagiri – Muthalik

…because Chaddis are Forever.(PHOTOS)

Et Tu Kanta Bai!

 

22 thoughts on “What do Dev and Muthalik have in common?

    • Mr. Bhagwad, I believe that rape is a crime whether committed by a stranger, a boyfriend or a husband.

      While having a discussion with my colleagues about rapes being committed by a husband on his wife, I was left wanting for answers to some of their questions. Therefore, I wish to ask you the same to know your views.

      How do you go about convicting a man for raping his wife? What evidences do you take as proof?

      Like

      • Quoting from Bhagwad’s post: //While it’s true that there can difficulty collecting evidence, this is a red herring. Start by defining the crime, then we’ll think about how it should be proved. As of now, a man can openly claim in public that he violently rapes his wife all the time and the law cannot touch him! That is the problem.//

        “Instituting the idea of marital rape raises the specter of a man going for long periods without sex even though he’s married!”

        Who will benefit from criminalising sexual assaults within marriages?

        Forcible sex with wife doesn’t amount to marital rape: Court

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        • IHM, I went through the link you provided. Though it discusses the reasons why our society and government are so reluctant to criminalize rape within marriages, it still does not answer the questions I asked.

          It is true that rapes within marriages are not seen as a crime. Even if a man claims in public that he raped his wife, he still wouldn’t be convicted just for the fact that he is her husband. Though it is unlikely that any man would actually own up doing that in public or otherwise and also wives don’t talk too as such rapes are kept hidden more than other rapes.

          So the only difference making such rapes a crime (right now) would be that such men who claim to rape their wife will simply shut their mouths. But the rapes will continue.

          But suppose such rapes are made a crime, then how would a rapist be convicted and on what evidence?

          In other cases, the signs of sexual intercourse provide strong evidence that the rape happened. But in case of a husband raping his wife, he can argue that the sexual act was entirely consensual when it happened.

          The only way out in such a condition seems to be that the word of the wife should be taken to be final if she accuses her husband of raping her. That is, an accusation by the wife together with the evidence of sexual intercourse should be enough to convict the husband.

          It may appear that I’m talking against criminalizing rapes within marriage, but I am merely trying to discuss the technical aspects of it. I understand and believe it is as grave as any other rape or even worse because the victim in such cases (the wife) has to continue living with (and slaving for) the rapist everyday.

          Like

        • Two question:

          1. Despite all the ‘technical aspects’, should some rapes remain legal, namely if the rapist is married to the person they sexually assault?

          2. Without acknowledging that all sexual assaults are illegal, how do we show respect for the rights of all citizens, married, unmarried, virgins, divorcees, minor, sex workers … sexual assaults should remain a crime, no?

          Like

        • IHM,
          1. I don’t say any rape should be legal. I’m all for convicting a rapist even if he is married to the victim.

          2. Once again, any and every sexual assault should be seen as illegal. I have no doubt about that.

          My only question is that how do you punish someone for a crime without being able to prove it?

          Like

      • How do you provide proof for any rape? Is there some reason the existing standard of proof is insufficient? What if there’s CC TV footage? Marks of violence and/or forced entry? Eye witnesses? Neighbors hearing things. All the usual stuff!

        In any case, this is obviously a secondary issue. The crime has to be defined first. When we’re looking for evidence, then we’ll see.

        Like

        • Suppose we clearly have a law which states that a rape occurring in a marriage is illegal (which actually it should be). But then we don’t know how to go about handling such a case if and when it comes up. So we would have a law but we wouldn’t know how to implement it.

          CCTV, eye witnesses, neighbors hearing things. Do you think these actually happen in any case where a husband rapes his wife?

          Like

      • You seem to be under the misapprehension that signs of sexual intercourse are a strong evidence of rape. This is wrong. Rape is not sexual intercourse, but forced sexual intercourse. Hence, the standard of proof for marital rape will be the same standard of proof for any rape case. Even in “normal” (non marital) rape cases, a sign of sexual intercourse is nowhere near enough proof. How do you think rape was proven in the Nirbhaya and the Shakti mills case?

        There is no conflicting standard of evidence here.

        Like

        • BUT you can only prove sexual intercourse and NOT ‘forced’ sexual intercourse. How do you prove ‘forced’ if there are no physical signs on the victim’s body? And how do you prove ‘forced’ sexual intercourse for a victim who is drugged/unconscious?

          Therefore, if there are no signs of physical injury/resistance put up by the wife, (specially when she is too scared and shocked to react) do you mean to say it will not be considered as a rape?

          Like

        • And you seem to be under the misapprehension that all rape victims put up a strong resistance/physical fight against the rapist, the signs of which can always be found on the victim’s body.

          Like

        • Ah, and yes, rape is not merely sexual intercourse or forced sexual intercourse. It is actually sexual intercourse without the consent and against the will of the victim. Physical force may or may not be used by the rapist.

          Like

      • There’s nothing to “handle”. We handle it like every other rape case. Collect evidence, prove it beyond reasonable doubt, and convict. There’s no mystery here.

        Like

      • @Medusa

        How is any rape case proved even when the woman didn’t put up physical resistance? Proving sex is not enough – nowhere close to obtaining a conviction. What is this sacred cow about a man and his wife?

        What if a boyfriend rapes his girlfriend. Isn’t that illegal under the law? How are those cases proved? Same way. There’s really nothing magical or unique here.

        And many forced sexual intercourse can be proved “beyond reasonable doubt”. Vaginal tears, scratch marks and DNA under the fingernails, torn clothing, blood, noises heard by neighbors, accompanying bruises. Then again, the man might easily confess.

        Some weird standard is being applied to marital rape here that is not applied to any other crime.

        Like

        • @Mr. Bhagwad
          In my very first comment in this thread (two days ago) I clearly wrote in the very first sentence that – I believe that rape is a crime whether committed by a stranger, a boyfriend or a husband.

          And you now question me – What if a boyfriend rapes his girlfriend.
          :-/

          In more than one comments, I had mentioned that every rape should be illegal even if it takes place within a marriage.

          And you write things like – What is this sacred cow about a man and his wife?

          You simply refuse to notice that I see all rapes as illegal (that by a husband on his wife included). Where did I mention anything like ‘sacred’ between a man and his wife?

          Not too appreciable.:-/

          Now, coming back to my question, IF a woman doesn’t put up any resistance, AND/OR there are no signs of any physical injury, like in cases where –

          1. The victim is too scared/shocked to react.
          2. A gun is put to her head to force her into submission (this ‘force’ can obviously NOT be proved).

          So do you mean to say, such cases will not be termed as rape? Is it up to the victim to fight back physically and receive physical marks of injury in order to complain of being raped?

          And you so conveniently evaded my example where the victim is drugged/unconscious. How do you prove a rape in such cases?

          You wrote – And many forced sexual intercourse can be proved “beyond reasonable doubt”. The catch word here is ‘many’. Not ALL.

          Under the law that defines rape, a rape occurs merely by penetration (partial or complete). It doesn’t include any of the points you mentioned as a necessary evidence for it to be proved as a rape. Those are just to support the case as circumstantial evidences. I’ll put my arguments point by point to show that all such things can be entirely absent in a case of rape if you want me to mention them.

          Once again, before you decide to reply to this comment, I’m NOT (repeat, NOT) saying that a rape by a husband on his wife should not be illegal.

          Like

      • @Medusa

        I don’t understand the confusion. If a rape cannot be proved (ie forced sexual intercourse), then the man will be acquitted. India has an evidence based jurisprudence system and a person is innocent until presumed guilty (though there seem to be some exceptions).

        I believe you are asking “What if the marital rape cannot be proved?” Am I right? Well, then…nothing! The rape cannot be proved means the rape cannot be proved. End of story.

        I’m afraid I don’t really understand the gist of your question. Is this the answer you were looking for?

        Like

  1. Just another sign of how a term that describes a horrific act, is used so flippantly… If you read the interview, the scribe does not question Dev about his statement. Any shock and horror expressed by the reporter (if there was any) did not make it into the published version. He is not asked why he likens being in politics to rape. Does he believe he has to be ‘raped’ to ‘change’ our system? It only says he “laughed” when he made this statement. It’s probable that he made a thoughtless remark, used a word that seemed ‘cool’. And a whole generation of young boys who regard him as their “Dev-da” now think ladies should just ‘enjoy’ said act. Worse still, young women, who weave their fantasies around his chiseled torso, begin to believe that their consent is irrelevant.

    Like

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