‘We grew up in a very liberal family. We knew what our limits were and our focus was our education. We never betrayed our parents.’

Are these trolls, pretending to be grateful Indian daughters of parents who ‘gave them freedom’ and who are quick to believe that a thirteen year old ‘betrayed her parents’ trust’ – something they claim, as good Indian daughters, they would never do? 

It seems the Noida police has (with no evidence) convinced many that there can be only one ‘motive’ when a girl child is killed, and it involves a ‘compromising position’. And it is, as always, the victim’s fault.

Why was it so easy for a story like this to be believed? Do we just believe whatever the police (or anybody) says? Or do many see the police version as a validation of their suspicions of what ‘westernisation can do to the society’? Or is it that many Indians have placed themselves in the Noida police version of the Talwars’ position and ‘understood’ the murders?

Please note: Liberal family, knew our limits, good morals, our parents approved of, never betrayed our parents, taking advantage of her parents’ absence, murdering is not the answer, ‘Sex life as normal’, ‘western life style’. Sharing two comments from from here: Aarushi case: Court awards life sentence to Talwars

1.

I am a girl, grew up in a very liberal family. I & my sister both chose our life partners and our parents approved of that. But we both knew what our limits were and our focus was our education. Our parent’s focus was to earn, provide us what they could and give us good morals. They did their job, we did ours. We are professionals today. We had friends (boys and girls) but we never betrayed our parents. In this case, Aarushi was wrong, taking advantage of her parent’s absence, parents were wrong probably trying to spend most of their time at their clinic and (of course they were doing it for their only child!!), but they forgot, she needed their time more than their money. Where is this society going? Where are our kids going? Why are we not involved in their lives as our parents were? I have a daughter and such incidents really scare me as a mother. Aarushi’s murder can not be justified, but I can also imagine a parent’s rage, anger when he/she saw their barely teenage daughter in a compromised position with a much older man (doesnt matter a domestic help or anyone else). In the end, everyone lost…… but in my opinion, the 13 year old girl is old enough to understand her actions and what can it do!! To avoid any other Aarushis, parents need to start getting more involved in their children’s lives and probably have a better after school arrangements for their children who are under a particular age…… It is a sad day, the whole family is finished…… but we all can learn something from this….. parents and children!!!!

2.

Here is some more advice for parents of Indian children daughters. It’s possible that both the comments were made by the same troll.  Parents in India need to come to terms with REAL WORLD. Teenage girls normally get into this sort of relations easily.Whilst the parents should take all caren to avoid it murdering the children once they find out about this is not the answer. We take great pleasure when our children follow western life style (even speaking English in western accent) we should also anticipate that children are prone to follow the western way of living. They watch what is happening around the world. Treat sex life Sex life as normal. Every one likes it when it comes to them but become moral guardians when it refers to others.

Edited to add:

I shared these comments here because I find this mindset difficult to understand – there seems to be no idea in so many minds that a 13 year old is a child and any sex with her by any adult is child abuse and rape.

Even the blaming of the parents is not without some sympathy for the only option they are seen to have – to kill her.

And those who believe this somehow see themselves as ‘liberal’?

Many also seem convinced that perfectly normal people can be provoked into violence, and brutal, cold blooded killings. There is no effort to find out if the parents had a history of violence.

I also wonder how many people think this way, nearly everybody I know is saddened by this verdict, nobody seems to believe that anything has been proven in this case – then who is making all these comments?

Related Posts:

Haryana killing : Here is a father A P Singh might want to defend.

“This man is openly threatening his daughter and is instigating others to burn alive their daughters.”

Indian family values are good for Indian daughters?

Only when raising ideal daughters in law is not their goal, would Indian parents be able enjoy having and bringing up girl children.

“See – UNICEF has figured it out. It doesn’t take rocket science to figure out.”

Nupur and Rajesh Talwar convicted under sections 302 (murder), 201 and 34 (common intention)

Aarushi Talwar’s parents.

Who do you think killed Aarushi Talwar?

Honor killing or Police trying to save it’s ‘honour’?

Do you remember this murdered couple who made a ‘dramatic reappearance’?

What do dented-painted women and disco-going protesters understand about a rape victim’s loss of honor?

 

76 thoughts on “‘We grew up in a very liberal family. We knew what our limits were and our focus was our education. We never betrayed our parents.’

  1. I really don’t see the point of copy pasting comments from TOI here. If people want to take on TOI trolls, they can do it on that site. Just saying that I personally want to hear your opinions, not random TOI trolls’.🙂

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    • I wanted to discuss it here Fem because I find this mindset difficult to understand – there seems to be no idea in so many minds that a 13 year old is a child and any sex with her by any adult is child abuse and rape.

      Even the blaming of the parents is not without some sympathy for the only option they are seen to have – to kill her.

      And those who believe this somehow see themselves as ‘liberal’?

      Many also seem convinced that perfectly normal people can be provoked into violent and brutal, cold blooded killings. There is no effort to find out if the parents had a history of violence.

      Edited to add: I am curious to know how many people think this way, nearly everybody I know is saddened by the verdict, nobody thinks that anything has been proven in this case.

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      • Thanks for the edit. I do understand why you share it, but without your opinions and comments in the main post, it ends up a little meaningless. It’s nice when you share your ideas on a subject you choose to tackle. It just gives the rest of us more perspective and you do have some great ideas which are worthy of discussion.

        As for the comment itself, I think it’s very easy for people to blame their own children than outsiders because you can’t control other people. But you can do whatever you like with your own child (or so some people think). This really lasts for life in some cases. The burden of being chaste and pure really is on the female child / teenager / woman. Men are leering at you? Cover up. Boys are whistling at the street corner? Stay at home. Bottom pinching in buses? Don’t go alone. Facebook stalking? Close your account. Because it is as difficult to take on roadside romeos, sexual molesters and stalkers as it is easy to tell your daughter to shut up and keep safe. It’s mostly lazy parenting than anything else.

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        • I have a teenaged daughter – she goes about town on the public transport on her own in London. All girls of her age do even after dark, it is considered safe.

          Would I let her do it in India? NO WAY. Don’t think I would could be called ‘lazy’ though.

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        • I am not about to judge you because I don’t really know you. But I and my sister have always travelled by public transport and have learned to deal with the problems that arise. Not equipping a daughter to deal with life’s realities IS lazy parenting. A person living in India and choosing to shut his daughter up instead of allowing her to grow wings is part of the problem. Danger is everywhere, but restricting a woman in the name of safety is worse than anything else.

          Also, it is because of people like us and other women who do take the initiative to claim the space outside the home as our own, is India still somewhat safe. If we chose to stay in because it’s dangerous, it will never become safe.

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        • @n, I have a daughter myself and can understand that you are worried about your girl’s safety. However, not letting her going out in India is the wrong signal. It merely reinforces the patriarchal notion that girls who go out “are asking for it”. One of my best friends once said: “If all the good people vacate an area, the area doesn’t exactly improve.” In other words, if we leave the streets to the criminals, we need not wonder the streets are no longer safe.
          We can’t protect our children of everything. Our job is to enable them to deal with the trouble life is going to throw in their way and standing by their side when they need us. And, if necessary, give outdated values the bird.😀

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        • “Not equipping a daughter to deal with life’s realities IS lazy parenting”

          Fem, I doubt if people will want their children to learn to deal with rapists and murderers and road-side romeos, if it can be avoided. If they are expats, they’re not really life’s realities, just freaks to be avoided during vacation trips to India.

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        • Just to clarify, I don’t mean to imply that I’m in favor of restricted Freedoms. I DO go out in India whenever I want, but I HATE the feeling of being on constant guard (and I’m not the delicate type, I can probably kick the butt of your average roadside harasser). I’d hate any child of mine to have to live like that. If I ever have a daughter, I’ll try my darnedest not to bring her up in India.

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        • That’s not the point. I never talked about people visiting India. But if you live in India, you have to live here. I would not blame someone for moving away because they have a daughter but if they are choosing to live here and have one, they have to choose whether or not to give her a real life or a watered down version of life where she experiences nothing.

          A woman’s main problems stem from the home and from people she knows. Sheltering her from going out won’t do any good anyway. I too hate to be alert all the time, but the alternative does not appeal to me. In the end, it boils down to whether you want your daughter to be able to take care of herself or be dependent on the near male to do so, because you cannot choose ‘safety’. It’s not in your hands. And where does it end if you choose safety? Someone who follows this reasoning might not even send her to school because she could be harassed on the way.

          I am sorry, but if you choose to restrict your child on the basis of the fact that life is not safe, then it is lazy parenting. You teach her to deal with life, or frankly, please don’t raise yet another subdued and dependent woman and bog down the cause of feminism even further. I have had a reasonable amount of freedom growing up, and I am still safe and alive. I see no reason why other girls shouldn’t be happy and safe and create their own space outside the home.

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        • Actually most females in India do not have a choice of going abroad or not using the public transport. Those who do not have a choice fight it out on the streets or choose to remain silent. Women of all classes occupying public spaces and fighting it out should definitely help in containing street harassment.

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        • You know, I’m all for occupying the night, and all that, but when it comes to a daughter, even an imaginary one, I cannot imagine sending her out to brave Indian streets at night without a commando type security guard following her at a discreet distance. I think I’m going to have to work very hard at not being overprotective if I ever choose to be a parent.

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        • @n. I also have a teenage daughter who goes about town alone in a big European city, but not after dark. And since we are going to India soon, no way am I letting her get out alone in India, not even with relatives, and I am also considering sleeping in the same room as her. That is not lazy parenting. It is the result of reading so many horryfying stories in the press and on this blog. Also my husband has started briefing her on dos and donts.

          I have educated my daughter to react in a certain social and cultural context, I think she is not prepared to the Indian context. You don’t throw a bird out of the nest before it has developped it’s wing muscles. That would be irresponsible.

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        • All I have to say is that then you must stop expecting the streets to be made safe by someone else or to see more independent women around. I firmly believe that those who choose to shelter their children beyond reason are part of the problem. No one said parenting was easy and each parent must do their best but facts will remain the same. If you overprotect a child. s/he will not be independent.

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        • @Fem. If your reply was intended for me, I do not expect streets do be made safe by someone else. The world is full of crazy people. In my opinion, education is about allowing children to do things when they are ready, and empowering them. Recently both my daughters have expressed a feeling of being insecure in the streets, one because a gunman came near her school, the other because she fainted in the subway and realized anything could have happened if she hadn’t been with a friend at that moment. Yet we live in a city that is considered safe.

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      • In retrospect, I was a “sheltered” child myself, even though I was never restricted from going anywhere I wanted. I was prevented from being in potentially dangerous situations, which mostly meant no public transportation alone other than regular daytime hours. Basketball practice at 6 AM? Sure, as long as my teammate who lived nearby gave me a ride on her Scooty (buses too empty that early in the morning). Out until 1 AM at a fest that’s a half-hour-bus-ride away from my home? (I lived in a small town, half-hour ride was the other end of town, passing through remote sparsely populated areas) Stay at friend’s place that’s on the same campus as the fest, or ride back with one of the parents, or wait for my parents/some relative to come pick me up from location (making sure there were people with me until my ride arrived). Growing up, I never realized how inconvenienced I was, or how I inconvenienced my family/friends with these arrangements. And when I moved away from home for the first time (post college), I was ill-equipped to deal with real life. I took me a few (ok, several) years to lose the conditioning and grow some self-confidence and muscle.

        My best friend growing up was one of the “unsheltered” ones – the sort who traveled alone on night trains from city to city at the tender age of 14, could shrivel the balls of any roadside romeo with impeccable hyderabadi gaalis (I remember this one time in 10th grade when the two of us were out on a desolate rainy evening, and were being harassed by three men on an empty street – she managed to intimidate them into leaving us alone with just her cussing) basically awesome as heck. I think we only grow as tough as we need to be – Her mother was a single parent, and she’s had to be in boarding schools off and on from a very young age, so she’s been looking out for herself since she was a wee one. It took me several years of living away from home to match her independence.

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    • Fem: I’d have to disagree with you here. I don’t want the trauma of going through those comments myself in TOI but I am happy when 2 of those price comments are picked and displayed here.

      IHM: I felt the first comment was well chosen but the second one was a bit generic. In fact I liked the line “Every one likes it when it comes to them but become moral guardians when it refers to others.”

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      • I was a little unclear in my original post. I just think it would be a better idea for the author to use the comments (if she wants to) in a post discussing her views. She has some amazing things to say, so I feel that by just posting comments without her analysis is taking away from the discussion.🙂

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        • IHM: I have to agree now. I used to read your posts from a RSS Feed. At that time many posts have seemed like a bunch of quotations from other sources and a few Rhetorical questions. I now read the posts and the comments, so it is alright. Maybe a small paragraph about your stance will make the articles better standalone pieces. Please do consider this suggestion.

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    • I agree with @Fem. I was a regular on this blog but slowly ended up visiting lesser over time and almost don;t now a days, as I found most posts having a common theme of curated trollish comments from TOI being reproduced here.

      I am sorry, I used to come here for IHM’s opinions, views and idea and not for a curated list of opinions made by vapid anonymous trolls who get cheap thrills saying something stupid on a TOI article.

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  2. It is the case of perception vs reality. What we perceive is conditioned to be that way. Amanda Palmer can write a blog about her experience shaving off her bush with vivid pictures of her vagina. I can’t even share them on Facebook or twitter.
    So we believe what we can perceive. For instance, I don’t believe that a family is not liberal if children knew their limits and their focus was only education… (refer first comment).

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  3. Yes, it is a troll.
    But the truth is even DG did not cross that unspoken line drawn by parents as a teen but did not give a hoot pushing boundaries as an adult. She personally know of cruel parents who would exert physical pain and terror in their children coz’ one failed to flush the toilet the right way or faught with younger sister. That man put the 14yr old’s hand under the leg of chair and sat on it and yet another man tried to smash the head of his only son with cricket bat because the child did not follow his instruction. This is the nature of some parents we are seeing in this superior civilization and society.
    Yes, plenty of women will take pride in not crossing that line and rather claim to be holier than thou about their moral superiority.
    It is a shame they are putting an onus on 13yr old to stand up to an adult’s grooming practices.
    What a shame, everything comes and rests on westernization yet they choose to type in roman and not devnagari or any other script.
    Peace,
    Desi Girl

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  4. Heck. Why cant these people leave that girl alone. And as her friend has said why dont they stop assassinating her character. Without knowing the truth blaming the girl, her parents as the whole family is such a bad thing to do. What if the parents never did it? what if the girl was never wrong? Why cant they think these angles? These so called know our limits people dont seem to know that it is such wrong to say wrong about somebody without knowing the truth. Hell with these people. Our society stays like this because of such pathetic hearsay people.😦 God help atleast the future generation.

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    • People don’t kill their sons in a honour killing. I agree the why is very important.

      I am a little flummoxed by this case and really have no opinions. Psychologically speaking, people who allow their daughters to have male friends and spend time with boys freely don’t really indulge in honour killing. And I think the parents also had an intercaste marriage, so why would they deny their daughter the opportunity to find love?

      On the other hand, I don’t believe that three teams of official investigators, as well as a court would all deliberately conspire against two ordinary citizens merely to prove a point. So perhaps there is some information they are privy to that we are not.

      But it all boils down to just one thing. If the evidence is inconclusive, it’s better to acquit. It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer. Let’s see what the higher courts have to say.

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  5. I hate murder apologists. I really do. I don’t care how “liberated” you are growing up, I don’t care how “Western” your accent is, or how “modern” your parents are, or how much “freedom” you had as a teenager. If you’re the type of person who attempts to reason and accept the fact that a girl was MURDERED, then you’re wrong, period. Especially a thirteen year old girl. People trying to justify the murder of a thirteen year old girl. It’s unbelievable to me. I’ve said it many times before, but the “educated”, “forward thinking” people in our society are the biggest misnomers, because they still remain some of the most close-minded bigots ever.

    To all the people who think they’re “liberal” because you were allowed to talk to boys as a teenager, understand this: You’re not liberal. Not even close. You didn’t have freedom growing up, if you didn’t have the freedom to do as you pleased, and live life the way you wanted to live it. If your freedom and liberation is something that is conditional upon “acceptable” behaviour, then it is not freedom at all. It is an illusion. You’re so “liberated”, but you somehow have parents that would kill you in a “fit of rage” for not behaving like how THEY want you to. Oh yes. Look at all the freedom you’ve got, so long as you live life on somebody else’s terms. Look at how loving your parents are, the same ones who gave you so much “freedom”, but somehow don’t have it in their hearts to accept you when you genuinely step out of line, and forgive you when you make mistakes. Instead, they kill you for it.

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      • If I had a dollar for the number of times I’ve heard that exact phrase get thrown around, I’d be able to pay my tuition for the next five years. “You can marry anyone, as long as he’s a compatible match, from our community, has an acceptable degree, an acceptable job, an acceptable salary, a good family, doesn’t drink, doesn’t eat meat…” the list goes on.

        Funny how things like, “a good heart”, or “kind”, or “caring and thoughtful” nearly never make the list. Those adjectives are packaged under, “has a good character”, but even then, that good character is completely conditional as well. It’s sick.

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    • I have a close friend who’s very proud of how educated and liberal her family is.

      She’s very proud of her academician father. The same father, who incidentally, threatened to kill her, and himself, if she married outside her community.

      It worked. She had an arranged marriage, and the same parents now counsel her to “ignore” disrespectful behaviour from her in-laws.

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  6. >there can be only one ‘motive’ when a girl child is killed, and it involves a ‘compromising position’<
    A 'revelation' like this comes towards the end of a CSI episode. In this case, however, the 'compromising position' is so in your face and seems to have everthing else tied to this one aspect.

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  7. There are all sorts in the world. Perhaps we tend to ‘know’ only those who, to some extent, share our world view? I agree though, 13 is too young to be blamed and nothing justifies this sort of violence in any case!

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  8. Speaking of comments on newspaper articles, here is one: “This a wrong judgment, if the parents have the right give life to child then they have the right to take that life, court or law has no right to convict the parents for killing their child.” I have no words …

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      • “Your children are not your own; they are the sons and daughters of life’s longing for itself.”

        Every parent in the world should have that poem on their wall after they have children. I think every parent intrinsically is aware of this as well, and in our culture, where there is so much emphasis placed on power and control, this is a scary thought for many. The idea that children have thoughts and dreams that are separate from their parents’ is something that many people know, but refuse to accept.

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        • Actually, Indian parents are co-owners of their children; Didn’t they “carry them for nine months”, and bring up them up with their “blood and sweat”, and I’m not even starting on the many sacrifices they’ve made for their progeny? It’s so selfish of the children to presume autonomy and independence. Sigh.

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  9. This verdict has left be very disturbed since yesterday. If it would have been a boy,would the theories constructed would have been different ?? I think yes.I feel bad for the talwars.And media is supposed to be the true portrayal of the society.But what media has done in this case is totally opposite.Please show that either way if the ” So called stupid theory of COMPROMISING POSiTION ” is true,it is a clear case of ” CHILD ABUSE ” . We forget altogether that we are discussing about a 13 year old here. Thinking about it makes me shiver to the core.

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  10. Yeh police ko sab pata hai…job dhang se rust or blood stain farak nahi kar pai, could open terrace dooe…par aarushi was found in compromising position by her father that police knew very well….Wow what nice stories probably they watch too much teen porn everyday…stupids….
    If this was true in wildest of my dreams. . Child betraying parents trust….that child is not a boy…parents should have handled this case of abuse and childs brainwash by handling the servant to police and counselling the child…

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  11. I really can’t understand the thinking of indian parents and indian society. If i have a child and somebody hurt him whom i will blame first? For sure i will blame the one that is hurting my child. Is my child, my blood, i gave life and raise it. I can be angry on my child if i realise that was knowing what was doing but first i will be angry on the person that did something to my child. And anyway nothing will justify murder of any person involved in incident. If i can kill means that i am a murderer no matter the reason behind the crime. I can justify the crime only when is self defence but even then how i will live with the crime? A healthy person that kills another human will always have big mental problems after that, even was self defence. If i would have find my child with an adult, doing sex, first i would have blame the adult. I would have kick his ass badly and report to police. The adult is having the responsability of what happened. Then i would have give all my attention to my child. So am i wrong in my thinking? I see that commentors acussing again western life style saying that we treat sex life as normal. How else to treat? To control our children in each and every way and if they don’t follow rules to kill them? We try here to be friends of our kids and to explain them what is good and bad. What they will choose to do is their choice. Finnaly is their life and they have all rights to live it. Sure that i will be angry if i will know that my daughter choose to start sexual life to 13, but will not be the end of the world. If she will tell me before to do it i will try explain her why i consider that is not healthy to do it. If will tell me after she done it i will try to understand her choice and to guide her in future. All that a parent can do is to be always near the child and to guide him/her. We have to live the life normal, to raise our children as well as possible and to hope they will choose the right path always. If not, then is our responsability to be near our children, even when they are mature, if they ask for help. We all did and doing mistakes, same our children will do. Mistake is part of life and from mistakes we learn to became better persons. So what is so wrong with western way to live and to think? If we just threaten our kids, beat them, and forcing them to live the life that we want result will be a disaster, an ill and sad society that will do same generation after generation. Please treat your children with love, respect and care and that will come in return. Will be mistakes too but in the end are your children.

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  12. Definitely a troll. Someone brought up in the kind of circumstances the troll described would never believe that a 13 year old was voluntarily involved with a much older domestic worker, period. People who are liberal do not use terms like ‘we never betrayed our parents.’ That, in and of itself, shows how archaic the commenter’s mindset is.

    It’s the same mindset with the police–just because she’s a girl and she has guy friends and may flirt with some on facebook or what have you, they think she’s also likely to ‘have an affair’ with an elderly, illiterate domestic worker. It’s exactly the same mindset with those commenters who were saying something like ‘the actress has so many compromising scenes in her movies, she should expect people to molest her.’

    Said commenter isn’t liberal, probably wasn’t brought up in the circumstances as she’s said she was. No idea what the troll/commenter thought he/she would achieve.

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  13. My biggest problem is the language that is being used the authorities and media. The law does not recognise consent from a 13 (just about 14) year old. A child can be manipulated or abused by a much older person. Instead of saying ‘she was possibly groomed’ or ‘abused’, they says ‘she had an affair’ (notice the active voice). This is victim blaming, saying that she did something here to get killed… for which they don’t even have any evidence.

    Also, speaking of the comment shared from TOI, I find it immensely creepy that my sex life should ever be seen as ‘betrayal’ towards my parents. Reminds of the man who raped his daughter to teach her a lesson for being in a relationship. Parents don’t own our genitals.

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  14. I am reading between the lines here.

    Talwar story is 3 days old : 2 posts on your blog.

    Tehelka story is 7 days old: 1 post on your blog.

    Is it possible the fall of a beloved left wing icon is breaking your heart? That too, he is being triumphantly torn apart by the “fascist” BJP Goa govt with great delight. Sweet sweet revenge for us.

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    • “Sweet sweet revenge for us.”

      This is the problem with your approach. You find an excuse to rip apart Tejpal an opportunity for revenge. You don’t actually seem to give a damn about the victim. You’re not in this for justice. You’re in this for ‘revenge’. The same BJP govt was mute against ashram so they’re clearly not after justice either.

      I don’t think you’ll find many takers.

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      • My take on this as of now is – Tarun Tejpal is an extremely rich and influential (and consequently powerful) person who, like every other criminal didn’t expect that this case will be taken seriously and believed that he can snub this off. I’m inclined to believe that certain political motives were behind the leaks of the letters – but this is no reason for me to believe that the victim was lying or to opine that justice should not be delivered. As to Shoma Choudary, I believe she has been scape-goated all along – and I believe the “Real” power center in Tehelka has still not surfaced out – I think this “real” power center upon whose influence Shoma was acting is interested in protecting Tejpal.

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        • Also, I believe the victim did not ask for an FIR at the start because she also knew that Tejpal was an influential person and it would be difficult for her to fight this legal battle (given Indian courts). I think once the news got “leaked”, she found support from known and unknown (politically motivated?) sources – so she decided to go ahead with the police investigation.

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  15. @Fern,

    Get your point. Thanks for the polite disagreement.

    I roamed all over town as a teen and used pubic transport big time. I have been stalked (for over 5 years) and flashed and groped. However had no choice but to carry on as we could not afford any other means.
    Would not let my daughter take a bus any more if I were to live in India. In fact that would one reason I would not move back.

    Let us agree to disagree.

    p.s: Read your comments here often and agree mostly😉

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  16. I had worked for a few years before taking a break to do my Masters, so I was not exactly a naive, just-out-of-teens, stars-in-the-eyes kind of person. And yet, when I called my mom (I was in another city) to tell her that I had met a guy and fallen in love, and yes, I ‘slept with him’ I was a little nervous – all those movies, maybe. My mom’s response? She said – “I hope you used protection. You do not yet have the time and resources to be a single parent if you and your boyfriend decide to split. And if you decide to commit you have time for kids later anyway”
    Not that it matters, but my boyfriend and I decided to split, I am doing very well in my career, am married to a wonderful guy and have two adorable daughters. My mom adores them, spoils them no end and is in no way “affected” by anything I do in my life. I often go to her for advice, with the disclaimer that I might or might not follow her suggestions, and she gives me ad”wise”.
    And that IMHO is what ‘liberal parents’ do.

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    • I tend to take that kind of advice very seriously. Because I know it’s from this very sincere place where they actually care about me and not because they care about the samaaj. Your mom sounds like someone I’d want to share a drink with! Hail aunty!

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  17. This is really an issue an issue in India that there is always a communication between parents and children. If this gap is overcome then the incidences happening around like Arushi, can be reduced. Also there is a strong requirement of women empowerment in India. Situations are better than earlier and hope so that it would be better than today in future. Have a look at Indian Women Workforce Statistics
    • 24 percent of the total workforce constitute women
    • 36 percent of Indian women take a break from work
    • 91 percent of women who take a break wish to rejoin
    • 58 percent are able to rejoin work full time
    • 72 percent of women workforce who take a break do not want to go back to their previous employers
    • 80 percent of women leave jobs for eldercare, maternity, and child care
    • Maximum women workforce leave jobs when they find their careers stalling
    • 25 per cent women constitute the rural workforce.

    These stats i’ve taken from Sahara Q Saathi’s Blog. Sahara Q Shop has started a new project named as Q Saathi for women empowerment and entrepreneurship.

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  18. @Fern,

    No idea how to comment directly below your comments as I cannot find the reply button there.

    So here goes. Agree – if we were to live in India, it would be restricting for a child to not be able to get around on her own using public transport. So I take the easy option – move out, now she has a lot more freedom and she loves it. Not a lazy option actually, given that I have left behind a much cushier lifestyle. I went to a semi-govt school, slogged it out and went to premier engg and b-schools in India. Now that I can afford it will I let my child go to a similar school in the name of social equality and the fight against capitalism? Would I be lazy if I sent her to what I think is a better school with better facilities/opportunities albeit with higher fees?

    I faced all that horror growing up as a girl in India. Coming from from school was a nightmare everyday – ha to wait for a bus in a deserted area and then there was the stalker chappie. We lived in India till recently and I have had to stare down b*******s on the streets who would ogle at my pre-teen girl, even when I was with her. Now that I have the choice, why should I let her face it all?

    By the way not even one of people I know in India have kids who use public buses by themselves. Sad but true. You could call me and folks I mention here overprivileged people living in a bubble and you admittedly would be right. But lazy, no.

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    • (Apologies for the typos. You have clearly touched a raw nerve! I hated leaving India, but one of the reasons I did was better safety for my girls)

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  19. I would like to share with you one conversation I had with one my female friend,

    We were in middle some talks and general things and somehow question of sex & marriage came in picture. here is how conversation goes:

    Me: What do think of a girl who has multiple sex partner?
    She: I dont know details how can I comment.
    Me : Lets say she is single, working, leading normal life, as clear as generally a person be and as confused as a normal person would be.
    She: Well, She is making her choices and she can do that.
    Me: What if she is your mother or daughter?
    She (loosing wits): what are you talking about?
    Me: Your close family ( mother or daughter ) making her sexual choices in & out of marriage.
    She: How can she do that? (with anger & frustration)
    Me: So it was ok to make choices till she was not related to you? other wise it is not ok? being married or not isn’t even the criteria?
    She: I don’t know. Change the topic.

    Now this is situation of a lot people. They are not real for change or against it. They are for whatever benefit them or doesn’t hurt their own vested interests.
    🙂, it seems like there are ghosts around.🙂

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  20. Pingback: ‘I have grown up and gotten used to the fact that my parents are considered less fortunate since they did not have a son.’ | The Life and Times of an Indian Homemaker

  21. Pingback: “When the time comes to support them, they back out and and blame the children for misusing their trust and freedom.” | The Life and Times of an Indian Homemaker

  22. Pingback: How would you react if you knew your son (or daughter) felt this way? | The Life and Times of an Indian Homemaker

  23. Pingback: ‘My parents will be ignored and ridiculed. No one will let them forget my so called shameful behaviour.’ | The Life and Times of an Indian Homemaker

  24. Pingback: “…it’s better if he is NOT a family guy. Extra points to the one who hates kids.” | The Life and Times of an Indian Homemaker

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