“why not marry them first and then have sex ? What prevents you from doing it ? Deep within YOU WANT JUST SEX and nothing more”

Received the same comment for the second time in response to this post:  “Here’s why I think the society should not obsess over a woman’s virginity.” 

What do you think of these views about women’s bodies, women’s sexuality, and what men and women marry for?

“All are hypocrites here (in these comments) who are basically guilty of loosing their virginity and hence commenting to reduce that guilt… And people who question the education levels of people who question their virginity status – what was your education level when u slept like a *** ? What was your education level when u were selecting the wrong partner ???

Well I am pretty young – 27 years – and was talking the same way as many others here… I was telling people – “I dont really wanna marry a virgin” and all the shit… That is until I got to develop feelings for a girl… The moment I realized the girl is not a virgin – my respect on her came crashing down… I then reinvented myself and realized that it is something inborn in EVERY MALE… I am sorry Ms.Feminists – thats pure biology…

I challenge men who commented adversely on preserving virginity – Would you marry a non-virgin girl (Not talking about widow / innocent divorcee – but a girl who willingly indulged in consensual premarital sex) without considering her past ? Or would you willingly accept your daughter-in-law / son-in-law who is a “slut” in your eyes ?

Having consensual premarital sex is an act MOST SELFISH in itself… You just care about pleasing ONE ORGAN in your body and for that you are going to throw away your parents hopes and probably going to hide this to your future spouse… If you really love someone so much that you are ready to have sex – then why not marry them first and then have sex ? What prevents you from doing it ? Deep within YOU WANT JUST SEX and nothing more… Now what is your education level ?

How is that after having sex several times a person suddenly appears bad that you should leave him ? If you leave him, is it love in the first place ? Would you not struggle until you are alive to change that person from going on the bad track ? If you are not willing to do that WHERE THE HELL IS LOVE ?

I had analyzed pretty deep- what exactly runs in a girls mind – who had sex before wedding..When these girls told “I Love You” to the other guys it just meant “I am in Lust” – nothing more… For if she had loved him, she would do whatever it takes to get him irrespective of the objections from her family… You dissect her mind and you will find out this – “I have had great sex with this guy – I am thankful for the great sex he gave.. Now it is time to move on and find a guy who will “Provide” me social security and respect in society..” – You are the guy who are going to provide her all the money, social security, children etc… while you dont get to enjoy her youth, beauty and her complete self… The same thing applies for “slutty” guys too…

A virgin should and must drop any such proposals from a non-virgin at any cost… No it is not a question of Inability, inefficiency, insecurity, jealousy or ego – that you should run away from a non-virgin… It is a question of values and ethics… It is a question of adherence to culture that nurtured you.. It is a question of respect that he/she chose to throw away… If they have not respected their body enough to preserve themselves what is the need for us to respect them ?

A non-virgin person cannot love like a virgin… A virgin’s love is PURE AND UNADULTERATED… And hence Virginity is associated with purity… Having sexual relationships before marriage does make you impure and highly immoral…

Consider this .. There is a new born kid and he grows up recognizing his mom/dad. Suddenly this kid is introduced to a new set of parents – will the kid really love the new parents the way he loved his mom/dad ? This is same in case of love… These selfish sect of people who have sex before (no control on their senses) will think only about themselves… Few of them say they slept because they loved and trusted the partner – this is what happens… They cannot love the next with all their heart atleast as much as they did with the first one… What is the point ? Just for pleasing one organ of your body you chose to ditch love ? Are your priorities not skewed ? Who needs more education then ?

And with guys who “dont mind” marrying non-virgin girls… You guys are the best hypocrites… If you really dont mind marrying such girls it probably means you want to have affairs outside marriage or probably blinded because she is physically attractive… remember – soon after a delivering a kid – Indian girls have the tendency to bloat… Her hair will start falling sooner than you expect… Her skin may develop wrinkles fast… And her attractive parts are going to sag… Now tell me – if she becomes this – would you accept her that way without thinking about her past? Would you accept her without hesitation ? Would you accept her without you getting upset about the fact that other guys enjoyed her body, youth and beauty for FREE and you are expected to maintain her in spite of her becoming unattractive ? Could you ?  It is not just about the sex alone… It is about everything – the sharing of emotions, the conversations, the freshness and the youthfulness…She has given it all to someone else – Can you live with these ? If you can, then hands down – you can very well marry a non-virgin girl… But when you say you dont mind all these – are you not lying ? I expect certain standards in a girl I wish to cherish the whole of my life – and the primary standard is she being a virgin…. AND I AM PROUD TO SAY I AM A VIRGIN AND NEED ONLY A VIRGIN ..

Having said this – Virginity is equally important for both guys and girls… I dunno how girls think and hence I put it all from a guys perspective… But if you yourself had sex before and you want to marry a virgin – then that is awfully bad… You have no right to demand a virgin when you are not one… But if you are – then by all means DEMAND and GO ONLY for a virgin… You wont regret later…

Everybody are good in sex – and a virgin would be as great as a non-virgin after the first few times of sex… Virgin may be better than non-virgin in the bed cuz there are no emotional baggages from the past… A virgin would have a cleaner conscience and healthy emotions – a prerequisite for great sex… Sex is not a rocket science and a virgin can excel in that with a little practice..”

The comment says, “cleaner conscience and healthy emotions – a prerequisite for great sex. Sex is not a rocket science and a virgin can excel in that with a little practice..”, but what if, “She doesn’t feel any attraction or liking or even friendliness for the guy. No ‘Connection’“? 

148 thoughts on ““why not marry them first and then have sex ? What prevents you from doing it ? Deep within YOU WANT JUST SEX and nothing more”

  1. ” I then reinvented myself and realized that it is something inborn in EVERY MALE… I am sorry Ms.Feminists – thats pure biology”

    Every male? seriously? Has this guy met every male in the world? Or his definition of male is limited to chauvinistic, narrow minded males?

    Thankfully, I now live in a society where love and virginity are not connected, although weirdly enough love and marriage are connected.

    I can respect the fact that he is a virgin and wants a virgin for himself but proclaiming that only virgin’s can love and only their love is the right one is a bit too far-fetched. He clearly don’t understand love and relationships. Virgin or simply put an inexperienced person usually confuse a crush with love. Unless you have been in a relationship, you really don’t understand love. Its always better to end a bad relationship instead of carrying it on just because you slept with the guy.

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  2. I love to watch cookery shows, and Im not going to cook anything till I have to cook for a dinner party. After all

    “Everybody are good in cooking – and a non-cook would be as great as a somewhat experienced cook after the first few times of cooking… non-cook may be better than somewhat experienced cook in the kitchen cuz there are no emotional baggages from the past … A non-cook would have a no experience and untried approach – a prerequisite for great cooking… Cooking is not a rocket science and a non cook can excel in that with a little practice..”

    Yes, I could say more , but I have to go and watch a cookery show now!

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  3. Oh wow. I can easily imagine the long line of girls right outside his door begging for sex while he insists on preserving himself for marriage…..NOT! I had no idea people could feel THIS insecure for not getting laid. Also the bit comparing sex with a non-virgin to kid loving his new mommy and daddy….I can’t say messed up in enough languages here! Boy oh boy. This email is the gift that keeps giving. Any psych/counseling grads that want to take a stab at it?

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    • “There is a new born kid and he grows up recognizing his mom/dad. Suddenly this kid is introduced to a new set of parents – will the kid really love the new parents the way he loved his mom/dad ?”

      Yes. It’s called adoption and fostering. People like this jerk would never understand this kind of love.

      Oh, and women in India are expected to do this….forget their first set of parents and love and serve their in-laws instead.

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  4. What a disturbed guy!!!

    I feel sorry for any girl who is going to end up marrying him. I am so sure that after reading this, NO GIRL in her right mind would choose to marry this guy. The irony is, if he had REALLY loved that girl, he must have stuck to her whether she is a virgin or not a Virgin, whether she is beautiful or ugly or whatever! His idea of conditional love is as retarded as he is.

    To the guy who wrote this letter, our fervent request is, PLEASE DONT MARRY SOMEONE AND SPOIL HER LIFE.

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  5. I am a psychoanalytic counseling grad who can give advice to our virgin author here:
    I think you should get married to your alter ego, and then go **** yourself.

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  6. yea , we need you to tell people that they are actually feeling how you said they should and are not feeling what they think they feel …

    same way people tell that couples who chose not to have kids are unfortunate ones who can’t have and then pretend by saying they don’t want to

    similarly all woman want to marry and the ones who are single are just pretending because they never could find a guy …

    Blah blah and more blah …

    You are virgin , you love virgins –good for you , Let people decide what they want / don’t want .

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  7. Dear lord! This guy needs medical help.
    //I challenge men who commented adversely on preserving virginity – Would you marry a non-virgin girl without considering her past ?
    Yes, I would have (I am married by the way) because I have the brain to understand that the person you are marrying should be compatible with you and ‘sex’ is just a part of the person’s personality. I should ‘like’ a person to marry her. But never mind, you won’t get it.
    //Having consensual premarital sex is an act MOST SELFISH in itself… You just care about pleasing ONE ORGAN in your body and for that you are going to throw away your parents hopes and probably going to hide this to your future spouse
    OMG! I need to have sex as an act of respect to my parents? I had no idea it was that complicated. Maybe we should touch their feet and take their permission every time we kiss our girlfriends/boyfriends?
    //A non-virgin person cannot love like a virgin
    Let me be clear here. So, If I take a virgin girl to bed, she will be non-virgin the next morning. So thats it? Our eternal love is done? Should I move on to another virgin girl because now this girl is a non-virgin and cannot love like a virgin.😦
    //Having sexual relationships before marriage does make you impure and highly immoral
    Look peabrain,
    Just because you believe in a shitty theory does not mean you have to thrust it down our throat. Be happy with your virgin wife and leave all us slutty non-virgins to our fate. We are impure, immoral and very happy that we are not you.

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  8. 1. To the letter writer, you have my sympathy. Nothing else. Because no amount of logic is going to get into your head right now. There seem to be some kind of alien beams or reflectors around your brain which are reflecting every intelligent thought that come towards you. No worries, you’ll get better soon.

    2. Probably the ONLY thing I appreciated in your post was you seem to apply your logic, however insane it may be, to both sexes. By sexes, I mean genders, just in case you think I am talking about the dreaded SEX🙂 No sex-discrimination there, I mean gender discrimination!

    3. Someone really messed you up didn’t s/he? Well, you must have arrived from another planet with a whole different set of expectations that what humans usually have. Hang in there, you’ll learn the ways of the planet soon.

    4. If a non-virgin wife can lose her hair, bloat, lose the fine texture of her skin etc etc after a delivery, remember, even your non-virgin wife is going to go through all that. Or did you think virgins were exempt from those? So in that case, how do you plan to MAINTAIN (Did I read that right?) your bloated, bald, wrinkled wife? Oh and wait, Gasp! You didn’t even get to ENJOY her beauty, body and youth now? Did you?

    5. You are a male but you cannot talk for one male. Similarly, based on your experiences with one female – however good or bad they may be – please do not generalize.

    6. When a girl (or even a guy for that matter) genuinely says ‘I love you’ it does really mean I love you. Maybe you hear differently because you are wired differently? Smack yourself on the head and ask her to repeat what she said. I do it sometimes to the ancient tape recorder at home, it works fine then. The emotions conveyed are for the moment and you have to trust that the parties in question have their best intentions at heart. However, down the road, sometimes things do not always work out for a whole bunch of reasons, none of which would make sense to you right now, as you’re only 27 and have a lot, trust me when I say this, A LOT of growing up to do. But nonetheless, I LOVE YOU does really mean I LOVE YOU.

    7. If you have to change a person in order to be with them forever, then that’s love? Whatever happened to love a person for what he/she is? I am sure you never heard that one before, did you?🙂

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    • Chanced upon this rather ahem… interesting blog post on IHM. Does anyone notice how ridiculously emotional and immature most of the replies as well as the OP’s original post are? The OP has clearly riled up quite a few folks here. Although poorly worded, and a tad rash in his assessment of the mental / emotional health of someone who has had premarital sex (based on his relative inexperience) he only expresses his values (on sex and his requirements for a mate) and his beliefs (around how important they are to the success of a long-term partnership like marriage) thereof. A lot of people especially from conservative cultures around the world including the Amish, the Bible belt and most of the Red states in the US in the developed world as well as large parts of India share this set of values. Number of sexual partners, promiscuity, and casual sex discourage pair-bonding (by desensitizing dopamine and other receptors… ever wondered why those who are sexually very confident are often times able to separate sex and love). Strongly indicated by several studies (for e.g. http://www.psy.fsu.edu/faculty/wang/PDF-papers/2006/06%20NSL.pdf). That’s why there is a premium placed on sexual mores and being very selective about sexual partners as monogamous and exclusive relationships provide the most stable basis for raising children (and this model continues to work quite well). It is only after the advent of widely available female contraceptives did pregnancy-free sex become easily accessible. However, other consequences still remain. It’s all about choice and all that the OP seems to be expressing is the very real concern and anxiety that he might not be able to find a partner of his choosing through the arranged marriage route (the whole process is usually a bit rushed, transactional and not conducive to helping people be honest and know each other well enough). While we don’t have to agree with his rationale, a visceral reaction only belies insecurity. Even the blog post, quite subtly has a leading question right at the end about sexual attraction and compatibility issues which have nothing to do with sexual experience. Can find out if there’s chemistry and attraction with someone without getting physically intimate and it leaves a lot to be desired if two adults can’t figure out if they’re attracted to each other before marriage (which is why there is usually a small gap between engagement and marriage). If one needs to actually sleep with someone to judge sexual compatibility, then arranged marriage as a process would be unsuitable to them, indeed the idea of a lifetime commitment like marriage would also probably be unsuitable for them (for people, and sexual compatibility are fluid, and change with time, aka the capacity of a person to sexually satisfy their partners is not fixed). There go 35 minutes of my life.

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    • Nicely put Deepa. Loved your comment #6. & 7

      Before this guy’s post, I didn’t know that my youthfulness would vanish over-night after a guy enjoys it and sex is all abt pleasing just one organ. So pathetic.

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  9. Wow, seriously disturbed and weird. All this insecurity because some girl he had a crush on was not a virgin? That blew away his dreams of suhag raat when she would be touched for the very first time, not for free (?)! Sigh.

    I shudder to think that we could arrange to marry off immature and twisted ‘adults’ like this guy to an unsuspecting partner. He sounds like a confused 13 year old who has never been in a relationship, never known a girl closely (even as a friend) and does not understand sex or love. He is completely confused, mixing romantic love, parental love and sexual experience.

    This is exactly why it’s better to promote healthy dating.. otherwise we create confused people like the OP.😉

    p.s: What is an ‘innocent divorcee’? I’m guessing he means divorcee without kids. Because it would be terrible if we misunderstood ‘divorcee’ to mean even someone with a child! Oh no! “Women bloat and get fast wrinkles and lose hair and sag after delivering kids”.. who wants that!

    This guy needs to grow up.

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    • The term “innocent divorcee” refers to those people who hastily contract an arranged marriage, realize quickly that they’ve made a mistake, and get divorced without consummating the marriage. If you read matrimonial advertisements, the term comes up fairly often.

      Anyway, I think this guy’s attitudes are borne out of a mixture of India’s hyper-patriarchal attitudes and Bollywood’s absurd idealization of romantic love. In the West, you can see similar attitudes in evangelical Christians. In America, there’s an abstinence movement called True Love Waits, which pushes the idea that if people wait until marriage, sex on their wedding nights will be ecstatic and wonderful. While sex certainly can be ecstatic, a person’s first time usually isn’t, and by attaching so much importance to the first night, these people are setting themselves up for a major disappointment.

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      • @Thumbelina.. yes, I bet he referred to her as his ‘girlfriend’ when she knew nothing of his existence (why do they do that?!). And I bet this revelation about her non-virginity came from local gossip, not from her (he’s never spoken to her, of course).

        @Priya, thanks for that. I should’ve guessed. He only accepts virgins after all. It’s not a good sign that he is so well versed in matrimonial lingo though.. those poor women!

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  10. Now I’ve read it all! I guess there are some nuts in the world. This is wrong on so many levels.. Iam not even going to start since so many people have already commented on it, by tum definitely going to share this post!

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  11. Why do I get the feeling that every time these types of guys who rant about women not being virgins are just simply threatened by the woman’s sexual experience? I mean really, I feel this guy just wants the pride of “being there first.”

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  12. Well if he weren’t judging others so strongly for having different preferences then he would be al right. Of course he has every right to seek a virgin, especially if he is virgin himself. But my problem is that why the heck he cares about others sexual lives? Why give a judgement, any judgement on a purely private matter. What if someone really likes sluts? How is it harmful to you?

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  13. Oh, these self-styled upholders of moral standards… I suppose we wicked, selfish, non-virgin women are all very ashamed of ourselves now after such an outstanding paragon of virtue delivering his wisdom to us. So pre-marital sex is selfish? Hmmm, let’s see. I enjoyed it, my partner enjoyed it – I think that made it a mutual pleasure. In my book, demanding virginity of the partner is selfish because it speaks of a freakish desire to control his or her sexuality. Oh, and before I cause another indignant outburst of virtue – I am a married woman and both me and my husband had partners before marriage. Love relationships, by the way. Or should I redefine it according to his purity and call them lust relationships? Nah, don’t think so. And yes, in case there are misunderstandings, my husband is male, so I guess I should tell him he is being challenged for not wanting a virgin above everything else.😀

    Sorry to break it so harshly to this innocent, male flower but a woman’s sexuality is her own business. If he can’t deal with it, I have no doubt there are plenty of untouched virgins ready to give him the best non-rocket science experience he can dream of – after marriage, of course, so as to keep his highly valuable respect. Maybe that will soothe his insecurities, for that’s all I can see in his rant. Maybe it’s even insecurity about his own performance, since a non-virgin is has the undeniable advantage that she can compare. A virgin can’t. Whatever the reason for this amusing piece of heel-snapping was, it does neither influence me nor my choices in life. Because they are mine alone.

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  14. “I then reinvented myself and realized that it is something inborn in EVERY MALE… I am sorry Ms.Feminists – thats pure biology…”
    Wow, I am sure there was thunder and lightning (celestial background music) when the author had his ‘Eureka’ moment. In one sweeping statement he has equated his personal thinking to the Universal male and if that is not enough he has also brought in ‘pure’ biology. If I am not mistaken biology is all about losing one’s virginity to promote the species.
    “You just care about pleasing ONE ORGAN” This is what happens when you ‘preserve’ yourself for 27 years. How naive and ignorant can one be? Young man you seem to be educated otherwise, so please read literature about sexuality or your future partner will be very unhappy ‘virgin’ or not.
    As regards to the gibberish about Virgin and non virgin love, I think Amit has said it very well.
    Finally thanks to IHM for posting without which I would not have known that such persons still exist.

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  15. Umm…this commenter is talking as if he’s the only guy whose opinion matters and that he represents all men. What arrogance! I’m a man and I’m living proof that his assumptions are incorrect.

    Wanting to marry a virgin means you’re insecure. That’s it. There’s no glossing over this basic fact. Deal with it without trying rationalizations and assuming that every man is like you.

    Speak for yourself. You don’t have to drag every other person down in the mud with you.

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  16. A bit off topic here, but someone really needs to ask this guy about how he intends to ascertain the virginity status of his future wife. Because if he considers the presence or absence of a tissue (hymen) to be the basis of one’s virginity, then he needs to be informed that a girl who has never had sex may lack an intact hymen while a girl who has had frequent sex may get a hymen restructured by plastic surgery. And how is he going to ascertain that she had never loved another man before getting married ? Is he considering a lie-detector test as a part of the marriage rituals ?
    And what if his future wife demands the proof of his own virginity ? How is he going to manage that ?

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    • Viresh,
      Since the guy is a ‘pure’ virgin himself and has never seen porn either (I get a feeling reading his drivel), I believe he cannot tell a hymen from a clitoris. I don’t even think he knows that there are various parts of what is down there.
      The best he will do is that he will dramatically put his wife’s hand on his head and go – tumhe meri kasam, batao, kya tumhe kissi ne chua hai?
      If she is shocked, he will do the vice versa to make her understand how foolish he is.🙂

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      • Some of my friends when they were teenagers thought that you had to marry to have babies and were totally ignorant of the concept of sex. I think this bloke will tell his wife, now that we are married, you produce babies and of course we will remain virgins forever.

        I really feel for this misguided fellow.

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  17. Whoever wrote this is a moron of the first order and has not a clue which way is up. I suggest getting an education, but it seems it would be lost on this guy. The kind of expletives I’d like to unleash on this moron are too rude for public use, but I am itching to use them. LOVE this guy’s definition of ‘slutty’ girls and how he says to ‘go for a virgin’. It’s a human being you’re making a life with, you utter moron, not a product you’re buying. Please, please never get married. I’m only reading your words and I want to slap the living daylights out of you, not that that would help your stupidity. Don’t ruin anybody’s life by being in. I’m not ashamed to say I’m judging the guy for being an inconsiderate neandarthal, a dullard with a sub-zero IQ and nonexistent EQ, and he honestly does not deserve to be a part of civilised society.

    I hope nobody ever has the misfortune of having to have this moron in their lives.

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  18. Let’s look on the bright side, it’s good that he wants to be a virgin, coz if this is how he talks to people, then he’s doomed to remain a virgin! Oh wait.. Arranged marriage to his rescue! *rolls eyes*

    At least he objectifies BOTH men and women.. umm forget it, I can’t find anything nice to say really.

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  19. //” I then reinvented myself and realized that it is something inborn in EVERY MALE… I am sorry Ms.Feminists – thats pure biology”//
    Guess who is THE candidate for the next Nobel Prize for such a stunning discovery in “pure” biology? No prizes for guessing, though.😐

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  20. huh???

    Wanted to comment something, but this guy is too messed up for any sane discussion. throughout the post I was unsure whether I was laughing or pitying this out of the world approach towards sex and relationships. this guy seriously needs to meet another human . being confined in a small and limited space does a lot of harm as is evident from his comment.

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  21. When I read things like this, I wonder, why are these people so sex-obsessed. Sex is plenty good, but they really overrate it! And I believe in doing so, set themselves up for failure! Other than that, this is a seriously messed up person.

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  22. i just that we should just recognize and acknowledge a lost cause when we see one… this guy for instance.. logic is lost on him.. i wouldnt even take the time to explain my point of view to him.. its like banging my head against the wall.. seriously, what can you say to anybody who says “you are expected to maintain her in spite of her becoming unattractive”??? he doesn’t even recognize a woman as a human being..

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  23. Not even going to waste my time trying to understand what is going on in his mind, but here is the part that made me LOL:
    “I had analyzed pretty deep- what exactly runs in a girls mind – who had sex before wedding..When these girls told “I Love You” to the other guys it just meant “I am in Lust” – nothing more”
    and a few paragraphs later:
    “I dunno how girls think and hence I put it all from a guys perspective.”

    If he admits he doesn’t know how girls (generalization much?) think, how in the world does he know if they mean “I love you” when they say it? I pity the poor girl who ends up being married to him, because she has no idea what she’s getting into.

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  24. It seems moral values of this commentator is that of a fast fading era out of tune with modernity. The  rule for women which insist sex should come only after and inside marriage originated when human civilisation began to settle down and cultivate in one area. Main reason was supposed to be a need for inheritance of land cattle and agriculture implements. For proper identification of heirs in Patriarchy one should be sure of the paternity. Remember that there were no reliable/safe methods of birth control at that time. Men, especially if powerful were not under any strict rule, but those children born outside marriages had no legal status. 
    After Scientific followed by Industrial revolutions feudal system had to be replaced by a Capitalist system. Unit of production became factories and offices and females began to be employed outside their homes for wage labour. Patriarchy weakened and female began to get inheritance from parents. Good methods of birth control were developed and sex did not automatically mean children. All these resulted in making sex before marriage less of a taboo in many societies. More Industrialised a society is, less the insistence on virginity. 
    The moral values change with Science and economics and the values that we follow now and preach through this blog is in tune with modern Capitalist Industrial Societies while the values preached by the commentator seems to be of a Patriarchal feudal society. 

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  25. Dear Letter Writer,
    I actually scrolled back up to check your age. You’re 27? Years? Really?
    And here’s a thought for you. The moment you and your virgin-wife indulge in the dreaded non-rocket-science act, both of you lose your precious virginity. Would a li’l piece of paper prevent the bloating, sagging and wrinkles? Or are you planning to do a Shahryar from the Arabian Nights, and marry a virgin bride every day, only to have her executed the next?
    Must thank you though. That’s the best laugh I’ve had in quite a while.

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  26. This is way over in the “not even wrong” category, there’s hardly a single sentence in this angrily fuming comment that isn’t at odds with the real world. Pointing out even half the mistakes would take a novel, so I’ll limit myself to a handful.

    I never once selected the “wrong” partner. I did sleep with 3 wonderful women before meeting my wife. I was in caring mutual long-term relationships with all of them, and intimacy was just one part of that. All of them are friends of mine to this day. Not every relationship that doesn’t end in “happily ever after” is a failure.

    As for the “challenges”, none of them are. Rather the answers are “yes”, “absolutely” and “ofcourse!” to every one of them. I not only “would” marry a non-virgin girl, but indeed I *did*, that was a decade ago, and I’m extatic that I did. And most *certainly* I’d be happy for my children if they found nice and good people to love – and if their loved ones are virgins or not is irrelevant, what matters is that the relationship they have is a good one.

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  27. This bloke is a poster boy of why sexual repression is never a good foundation for a civil society. Rather than putting it in its place as one of the many facets of a person’s being, and of life in general; sex becomes an all consuming, larger-than-life obsession. This guy’s obsession with women and their sexuality is a projection of this facet. He is so repressed that he can’t see a woman’s worth beyond her existence as a ‘receptacle’ of sex. When someone thinks of a woman as ONLY a sex object, they start to believe that a non-virgin is like a food plate that has been eaten from and hence, not worthy of consideration.

    He would find a partner though. The Indian marriage market is full of virgins, women who have been culturally conditioned to think of their virginity as the ‘greatest gift they can give to their husbands’. I think it’d be ironic if he gets a ‘chaste’ virgin woman who is so prude/inhibited/frigid that he doesn’t get to enjoy much of her ‘youth’. Like all those dunces I know, who marry Pollyanas and then complain about their lack of sex life.

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  28. For the apologetic defenders here – it is not ethically wrong if you have sex out of plain lust. You don’t have to justify and defend against this bloke’s attack saying you ‘loved’ your partner.

    Also, it is not unethical to be selfish, if you didn’t harm anyone else while doing it. We all deserve selfish pleasures once in a while, it is caring for who we love the most – ourselves.

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  29. Basically, his non-virgin ex girlfriend laughed at his crude advances which hurt his chauvinistic male ego, hence the change in his views.

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  30. I’ve not read all the comments here, but I see the majority are in the same vein of “OMG! I cannot believe this guy is as messed up as he is”.

    But really, this mail is a reflection on how the MAJORITY think! The ones who comment here are amongst the minority who think that there is more to life than preserving your virginity till you get married.

    And while we say that the guy is messed up and he needs help etc, we must also understand that this thinking is what he has been brought up on and what has been ingrained into him as ” indian sanskar” and all that.

    The guy has clearly not had any experience of being in a relationship, so there’s no point trying to explain to him any aspect of it. This kind of thinking is what he and millions of others have been brought up on and is encouraged and, I don’t know about the rest of you, but even the idea of trying to make him change his mind, at this point in his life, is exhausting to me.

    So I guess what I’m saying is… live and let live. I don’t care if he judges me, but he mustn’t harm me or force his ideals on me. Bas.

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    • So I guess what I’m saying is… live and let live. I don’t care if he judges me, but he mustn’t harm me or force his ideals on me. Bas.

      I would actually say that if the majority actually does think this way then we must care when they judge us. Because in a democracy, when the majority is allowed to morally judge people, they can force their ideals in law. I think at the very least, it is essential when we encounter such people to say ‘I disagree with your ideas, do what you want but you cannot judge others.’. Except if they are trying to kill you or something.. in that case, run. But otherwise, we shouldn’t let them get away with judging us.

      I agree that it would be exhausting to change this guy’s mind but at least now he will know there are many who don’t accept his ‘judgement’ and are unaffected by his moral view.

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  31. i have a doubt.. does he relate virginity to being honest in relation too? is it ok for him, if his girl is virgin when he get married, later sleeps around with other non-virgin men??? may be still his conditions are satisfied.. he would get his Virgin-wife and other men would get “slutty non-virgin ” like Amit said.. in that case the mail writer get pure first time wife as per his wish.

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  32. All I can say on this whole topic is that a person has a right to be a virgin/non virgin and expect a partner who is a virgin/non virgin

    But they have absolutely no right to judge others by their choices. And no, non virgins do not love less or love shallow.

    It is pathetically funny that I can somehow empathize with this guy. When you are a virgin unable to get any…you begin to look at your virginity as something valuable and take a stan d of moral superiority…. The sooner one gets off that horse, the better.

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  33. Had a good laugh on reading this post and comments. Once again we got a typical indian specimen here. And let me put some logic into how this sort of thinking goes into his head.

    These guys during their late teens with raging hormones would try desperately for some love affair mostly for satisfying their lust. And obviously they are unsuccessful in that and by the time they reach the marriageable age, their fantasies of sex would be sky high. At this point, they see youngsters having affairs which fills them with all sort of jealously and disappointment.

    Now that they have the shortcut called arranged marriage where they get to have sex, they are scared of the fact that their prospective brides can be impure. These are the same sort of guys who gets into moral policing just because they don’t want anybody to enjoy things that they couldn’t do even after trying hard.

    The logic is simple: Youngsters with less contact with opposite sex (even as friends) mostly become virginity seekers in marriage market. Our bollywood also glorifies this. Whenever a hero falls for somebody else’s girlfriend / fiancee, it is never shown that this girl was having sexual relationship with the former partner.

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    • You are absolutely spot on my friend.. It is the disappointment of not having relationship and jealousy ; hidden behind the veil of moral superiority.

      Enhanced by the fact that it is much easier for girls to get sex than boys..so virgin boys begin to insult non virgin girls as sluts. It is a defense mechanism to hide your failures.

      This is a result of unhealthy high levels of gender segregation and sexual repression in the indian society. I myself am in the same scenario , 29 year virgin male , and I can feel the negative impact it or my biology and mental make up. I can see myself getting jealous when I see young couples , making out or even just holding hand, wondering if their is something wrong with me that I am not the guy holding hands. Thankfully I have the maturity to deal with this in a positive fashion.

      Opinion on sex differ so much basis whether you are getting it or not. It really is the eighth wonder of the world

      Like

    • “Our bollywood also glorifies this. Whenever a hero falls for somebody else’s girlfriend / fiancee, it is never shown that this girl was having sexual relationship with the former partner.”
      I think it is the other way round, an ‘art imitating life’ trend. Till recently, most of the romantic relationships (love affairs) among the Indian youth didn’t involve sex. It was considered a marker of the love’s ‘purity’ if it wasn’t ‘debased’ by a sexual relationship. I still remember when I moved to Kolkata, one of my batchmates would be proud that he was a ‘decent boyfriend’ and he ‘didn’t even touch her’. When I told him that it was rather strange for a romantic relationship, he defended saying it was ‘against Indian culture’ to ‘defile’ girls before marriage.

      Some relationships in college were sexual though, but the men were definitely not comfortable buying condoms, as it ‘exposed’ their sexuality to the chemist. A matter of ‘shame’, if you will. Check my post here for a little background. –> http://www.theatheistindian.com/india/condomwalla-to-father-teresa-love-hote

      Oddly enough, my friend in the first case continued his relationship beyond college, non-sexual of course, till he found that she has been cheating on him. And he was royally pissed that the relationship was sexual, as opposed to her own imposed dry spell of celibacy, which he interalised as a market of her own fidelity (which he had to keep up as well). It is one case of where equality hurt the man more than the woman.

      I think if there was less hypocrisy and game playing in the area of sex and relationships in India, there would have been far less instances where men expect virgin wives. After all, if a man has been taught that the reason why he undergoes 10 years of celibacy after puberty is because of Indian culture, he would feel cheated and outraged if he finds that others aren’t undergoing the same ‘torture’.

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    • While I agree with you that these kinds of guys are medieval and ridiculous, we should stop shaming and belittling men who have trouble finding sexual partners.

      There are good and bad, awesome and pathetic humans of both genders, and that is true entirely independently of sexual experience. Claiming that men who have no luck finding suitable partners are pathetic, is just as bad as claiming that women who -do- have sexual partners are worthless sluts.

      Like

      • I agree with you about not judging anyone for their sexual status but I think there is a different issue at play here.

        If this guy had written in and said that he would have liked to find love/consensual sex/a partner but hasn’t been successful, most people would have sympathised and discussed social restrictions on human relationships.

        However, the guy writes in to take a moral high ground for ‘preserving’ his virginity for 27 years, claiming that anyone who doesn’t is somehow broken. The digs at him are not because he didn’t get some, they are because he clearly wants some but condemns anyone who got some! He is using a double standard to justify moral policing the rest of us.

        Other than that, anyone’s sexuality is their business and of course there is nothing shameful about being a virgin or not. I don’t think the commenter’s intention was to reverse judge a virgin.. at least I didn’t read it that way.

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        • I know. It’s just that it’s so very very VERY common to see descriptions of young men who combines precisely these two aspects: a) being unsuccessful in finding a sexual partner and b) being patetic and “worthless” as a man. (in english having your first sexual experience is even sometimes refered to as “becoming a man”, as if inexperienced guys are not even properly men, but instead merely ‘boys’)

          It’s true that many men, at a guess I’d even say “most men” spend some time when young in a state of sexual frustration, there’s nothing shameful or wrong about this, and it doesn’t make them any less worthy as men, it’s just that human relationships are complicated and sometimes it works out, while sometimes it doesn’t.

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  34. I think its only possesive, jealous and insecure people that are obsessed over their partner’s sexuality. Sometimes virginity is just due to a lack of opportunity really.
    The only statement I agree with is this…
    “But if you yourself had sex before and you want to marry a virgin – then that is awfully bad… You have no right to demand a virgin when you are not one…”
    Its not only awfully bad, its plain silly and selfish.
    I really pity this dude though and I pity whoever has d misfortune of spending the rest of her life with him. He obviously knows nothing and is very satisfied with his ignorance!

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  35. What bother me most about this post is how the writer tends to think of human relationships, with its components of love, caring, sex, company, emotion and all as a commodity , a product, like a cake

    In his view each person starts with a full cake. If she marries virgin she brings a full cake to the table. But if she has had pre marital sex, a bit of that cake is taken away by somebody else. The more the number of partners, the more sex she has had , the longer the relationships were, the more cake has been eaten away, reducing what he will get.

    And so he advise virgins ( that word disgust me )to reject non virgins . As virgins bring full cake while non virgins – not so much. In his opinion this becomes an unequal trade . The non virgins get to have their cake and eat it too, which he does not agree with.

    Somebody please explain that that is not how human relationships work. Their is no cake to be eaten away; only a full person to love and receive love from. Always a full person.

    So anybody got cake ?
    Just kidding.

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    • Love your analogy (I might be a bit biased since you used cake). I will use this next time someone refuses to see how they are objectifying a person.😀

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  36. I agree. I think it is difficult for women to really understand and appreciate that even great guys can have difficulty finding partners even in long term. Sometimes it can be due to circumstances, or naivety or lack of social skills which can keep them deprived of this basic human experience.

    On this forum I have seen men being called losers too often, while women in similar scenarios are given a sympathetic ear.

    Women really never have to go through this sexual desperation and frustration, until they chose to due to social expectations. even than they can have at least male friends , while men can find even that challenging.

    Getting company of opposite gender easily is the only biological advantage women have over men. Do not use it to belittle men. Trust me, so many girls will not get partners as easily as they did , if they were men.

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    • I certainly don’t want to belittle men who didn’t manage to find a girl, my clever, lovely brother being one of them. I just wonder what makes you think that women don’t go through sexual desperation or frustration? As far as I remember, the very fact of women being sexually frustrated gave Dr Sigmund Freud the idea that many mental issues, including the often quoted “female hysteria”, are based on repressed and frustrated sexuality. We too have some urges, especially when the hormones are high.😉 So maybe we can agree on two things:

      1) no bashing of men here who are single (for whatever reasons)
      2) no generalizations who suffers more from sexual frustration since it’s frustrating for both genders

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      • Women certainly go trough sexual frustration and/or desperation just like men do. But often the experiences are different, likely due to both biology and culture. To oversimplify grossly, many women have problems, and experience frustration because they are unable to find the right partner, while many men have problems and experience frustration at not being able to find *any* partner.

        This is of course a oversimplification of the complex reality, but it remains true in most of the world that a young woman of average looks will have a easier time finding some male who is willing to have sex with her, than a similarly young, similarly average-looking man will.

        This may be one of the reasons why women are sometimes shamed for being “sluts” or being “easy”, while men are more commonly shamed for being “losers” or for being not “manly” enough — i.e. the women are shamed for having too much sex, while the men are shamed for having too little. Again, this is a simplification, the real world is more complex than this – but I do think there’s some kernel of truth in this.

        We should avoid attacking eachother though, we’re in this together, and the cure is the same for both “problems” – namely the recognition that your value as a human being are entirely unconnected to how often and with whom you have sex. Women who aren’t virgins are exactly as valuable as those who are, and the same is true for men.

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        • // experience frustration at not being able to find *any* partner //

          Wish I could thumb your comment up fifty times!

          This is off-topic, but that exact line from your comment came up yesterday at home. One of the reasons I was pressured into accepting my wife’s proposal to get married was that she was one of two single women with whom I had any kind of non work-related interaction at all. I was repeatedly in projects where there was no opportunity to even find women in my age group. At best, people made weak half-hearted attempts at parties to get members of the opposite sex introduced to each other, and at times even went so far as to avoid any such introductions (this is Chennai in the early 2000’s, and I still see a lot of this in the 2010’s).

          She was, as expected, horrified and disheartened to hear this, hoping to hear that I had found my “made for me” match after much struggle like she had had. In reality, I had to weigh in the risk of not meeting anybody I liked as much, given that I was not meeting anybody at all in the first place. (That said, she is a “made for me” match in more ways than she imagines :-))

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    • “Trust me, so many girls will not get partners as easily as they did , if they were men.”
      When you think ‘girls’, you probably think of the more attractive girls. If you knew just how many women have difficulties getting sexual partners or how many women had confidence problems/nervousness when talking to more attractive men, you’d realise men and women are not so different after all. Having known as many women as I did on many levels, I don’t think the whole “women can get sex easily, men can’t” is all that true. At least not in India.
       
      The difference is social. A woman’s lack of sexual experience is not her ‘shame’, while it is for a man. The exception is some tribal cultures of India, where gender roles are reversed (to an extent).

      Like

      • @aurinia81 //women being sexually frustrated gave Dr Sigmund Freud the idea that many mental issues, including the often quoted “female hysteria”, are based on repressed and frustrated sexuality.// I consider Freud analysis of human sexuality as complete hocum and wrong. Besides there is no single correct answer to human sexuality discussions and Freud can also be wrong.

        @Eivind//many women have problems, and experience frustration because they are unable to find the right partner, while many men have problems and experience frustration at not being able to find *ANY* partner.// This is so so so true, a reflection of the reality that getting company of opposite gender, both platonic and romanctic is so much easier for women. Pardon me for language , but a 4/10 women get at least a workable boyfriend / short term fling / casual sex much easily than say a 6/10 men

        @AtheistIndian //I don’t think the whole “women can get sex easily, men can’t” is all that true. At least not in India.// I really think it is. If you are even a half decent looking women all you need to do to get sex is to want it. That does not work for men.Of course women have higher reputational risk.And this excludes paid sex.

        //The difference is social. A woman’s lack of sexual experience is not her ‘shame’, while it is for a man.// This is the real issue my post was all about, that men not getting sex are shamed and belittled , as if they are incompetent. Women don’t face this ridicule , in fact no relationship history is seen as a positive ( flip side – focus on virginity ).

        We tells girls that they should have sex only if they are totally comfortable , and it is ok to want to feel close emotionally before having sex. This option is not given to men, if they say they want to wait for sex, or want emotional intimacy – trust me they become object of ridicule.

        Thats why I put “men not interested in casual sex” along with other sexual minorities, in my other post, becuase society think this is a problem , just like they think LGBT are.

        Once again, I do not say that women do not face issues of frustation or repression, all I am saying is that their manisfestation is very different . Women mostly say they are unable to find “RIGHT” partner, with with men it is “No” partner

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  37. So what’s wrong if “YOU WANT JUST SEX and nothing more”? Sometimes people just want sex without having to be married to the person they’re having sex with. As long as neither party is an unwilling partner, it’s nobody’s business and ESPECIALLY not the business of people like this sanctimonious, ignoranus (that’s not a spelling mistake).

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  38. This man is filled with hatred. Honestly, reading this has left me disturbed and disgusted. So don’t agree. I am also a virgin by choice and prefer to marry one. But I am not obsessed with it like this.:/ Also, I am not a hypocrite- and I will freely admit that i don’t like the idea of marrying a non virgin because I feel inept about it. But I will adapt if the guy I love is worth it. Because I won’t love their body, you know. I will love THEM. So their past will have NO effect on my feelings for them.

    And this talk about “pure” love- it is all hogwash. Makes me gag. 90% of the people who talk about pure “love” in India are people who have crushes. That is NOT love. Love CAN happen again and again. It is not a joke. A kid, guess what- CAN develop feelings for multiple parents- kids who have lost their birth parents and were adopted in loving families, DO frequently love their new parents the same way. Though I can see how this would be a difficult concept to grasp for something that cheap. Cheap is really the only word for somebody filled with this much hatred, and stuff in their brains.:/

    IMO, a conservative person who talks nonsense about “culture” all the time and has sex is definitely a hypocrite- and I wouldn’t marry such a person. But then again, i won’t marry such a person even if they were virgins- virginity is not the only issue where such people are hypocrites, after all.
    And liberals, normal people, people who were in love with somebody and people who are completely proud of having had casual premarital sex are good people, and worth getting married to. The only thing I will be worried about them would if they were cheap enough to think like this author(who views virginity as something “pure”. Because I refuse to marry a person who will look at my private parts as if they are something pure and will get dirty after sex. The whole idea is disturbing.)

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  39. After reading this – i had to stop and pick up my jaw off the floor. There is so much misogyny and spitefulness going on here.

    Sex is not an equivalence of love.
    It is possible and very much prevalent – that people fall in love, fall apart and fall in love with some one else.
    Such people are not evil, immoral etc. They are normal.
    Women do NOT need to be maintained!!!!!!
    Virginity has ZERO impact on married life. The issue is of the couple not being in love with each other – it has nothing to do with if either one of them have slept with someone else.
    I think the biggest factor – behind this obsession is the fear of not being able to satisfy a previously experienced partner. See if there is only one horse in the race – there is only one winner🙂 . The sad truth is that sexual satisfaction has a lot to do with mutual respect, trust, a feeling of safety and genuine love and physical attraction.

    I feel sorry for the guy and his insecurity about himself and his sexuality. he has been fed incorrect information during his “deep analysis” and is basing major life decisions on this.

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  40. The very first article I read as I stumble upon this nice blog makes me introspect about several aspects of myself. Being a male, I’m tempted to put forth some of that in response to the individual and the following comments.

    Being a few years older to the person who expressed some pretty strong views (in the article) I suddenly realized that I simply wasted the past two decades or so which I could have better utilized in infusing my ego with a generous dose of self pride of being a ‘virgin’. Having never been in a physical relationship with someone, it never occurred to me to assess if I was any much superior/inferior to people having pre-marital/marital/extra-marital sexual relations.

    After reading his views in the article I was forced to question myself. Am I ‘preserving’ myself for that someone/someday in context of the concept of marriage ? Having always ridiculed the idea of “marriage=sex” or “sex=marriage”, I’m sure that is not the reason.

    So, am I abnormal ? As far as I know myself, I’m straight (not that I have anything against gays or lesbians). I feel attracted to females as any other male would. I’m a normal male in appearance as well as my behavior/habits/hobbies. So, do I consider sexual relations as something dirty/bad ? I believe sex is something very natural to all living beings, including humans. They don’t call it the “basic instinct” for nothing. I can only assume that it is a beautiful feeling to those who do or have experienced it.

    But still I’m a ‘virgin’…. !! Maybe I tried but couldn’t ‘get some’.

    Throughout my school and college days I had a lot more female friends than any of my male friends had. Not that I was competing with them or was running around/behind girls for ‘fraandships’. All my friends were (and are) genuine friends irrespective of their gender. While quite a few males around me were desperate to just talk to a girl, get a girlfriend or ‘get some’, I used to be the object of their jealousy. Some indicated that I was a ‘safe’ guy, so girls got friendly very easily. Quite a few of those males managed to get girlfriends. Some even married their girlfriends. But it never mattered to me if most of the males around me were actually going around with girls and more. I just wasn’t looking to ‘get some’.

    So am I bland and emotionless ? For someone who cries secretly while watching romantic comedies (I consider myself a closet romantic :P) I don’t think I’m emotionally abnormal. In reality, whenever I get to know a girl really well, it never strikes me to get flirty instead of being great friends. Maybe I am plain dumb ! But I don’t have a problem with that.

    It’s just that I’m not comfortable with the idea of experiencing casual sex. Not that I attach a sense of high morality with the idea (I consider morality usually as something which is used to label a person superior to the other) and neither do I relate it with any cultural values. I have never been a fan of those stupid stereotypes of Indian movies too (which would make me imagine getting an ‘innocent’, ‘virgin’ and ‘pure’ wife someday). And it isn’t about confidence, fear, guilt, responsibility or any such thing. I just can’t have sex with someone, walk away and forget about it. Maybe it’s just the way my brain is wired. It’s only when I get the 100% sign from my inner self that I’ll go forward with someone. I don’t know if it has got anything to do with love as I’m yet to experience that too (I do have a new crush every week :P). But surely, I never considered it as ‘preserving’ my ‘virginity’. And absolutely not for the want of a ‘virgin’ partner.

    A few days ago a friend was mocking me as he told me about a movie called “40 year old virgin”. And here I came across this article. Though I’m doing extremely well in my profession and I’m happy with my life in general, but it makes me ask myself, should I have given a thought to my personal preferences, either I should have taken pride in my virginity or given it up long ago ? Or am I just another looser either way ?

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    • I might just have the answers to your questions; as i have often asked these to myself, a 29 year old never been in a relationship guy. You are what I will call a sexual minority of
      – Celibate By Choice Men / Not Interested in casual Sex Men

      The questions you have asked to yourselves are no different from what the LGBT community have asked themselves all these years. Are we unnatural? Are we abnormal? Why are we different than most people around us? Why do we not feel similar sexual attractions as most people do?and work on those ?Are we unemotional? Uncapable of loving and being loved ? And so on…

      The answers the LGBT community have now reached to these questions, are applicable to you too. Their is nothing wrong or unnatural about you. You are what you are in your choices, preferences and sexual tastes. You are no less of a man ( i use this term specifically,as in such scenarios manliness of the person is often mocked ) or a human being.You are, once again a sexual minority of
      – Celibate By Choice Men / Not Interested in casual Sex Men

      I realized this for myself sometime ago and the realization has given me sexual freedom ( no sex though ..:). May be my analysis could help you also.

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    • I understand where you’re coming from. No you’re not a loser, it’s okay to not want to engage in causal sex. You’re not strange or anything. I wouldn’t put you in the same category as the guy discussed in this post. You’re entirely different. See guys like him just have these sexist and outdated notions about sexuality in general.

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      • It’s sort of the same thing I complained about elsewhere in this thread: Too often men who are unable – or unwilling, to attract a sexual partner are shamed and belittled, as if there’s something wrong with them or even as if they’re not “real men”. That is rude, untrue and hurtful and should stop.

        I’ve also never had “casual sex”, for the simple reason that for me, sex goes hand in hand with deeper emotions, with love, respect and trust. Thus the only women I’ve been with have been women I’ve loved – I did have 3 girlfriends before meeting my wife, but I would not refer to any of them as “casual”, all of the relationships where serious ones lasting years – that doesn’t fit my definition of “casual”.

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    • i suggest you wake up from whatever dream world you are living in. If not now you will wake up at 50 feeling like life cheated you and you let it. You should play by the rules of the game, and not by rules and constraints that you made up yourself and nobody else follows.

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      • I agree with someguy here. Why are you ‘celibate by choice’? Is that a sort of acceptance because you can’t find a partner OR is that because you are asexual? If it is the latter, it is probably all right but if it is the former, it can be remedied, rather than using the wall of ‘choice’ not to take the initiative. As someguy put it up, you don’t want to be in the position 10 or 20 years from now, where you feel life passed by and you did nothing for your sexual prospects. It can bring an utter sense of despair, dissappointment, anger and some kind of ‘revenge mentality’. From a psychological point-of-view, it can damage you in a way you would find it preposterous if I tell you today.
         
        And frankly, the whole ‘waiting for someone special’ is over-rated. After my first relationship ended, I kept waiting, but realised after two years of dry spell that no one is special. And waiting years for that perfect partner is a fools game, it is like wasting years taking coaching just to get into IIT (instead of taking a B.Sc. while you prepare). If you have a situation where you don’t find the ‘perfect’ partner but meet someone you gell with for the time being, bite into the bait. Experience is the mother of perfection.

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        • @ Anonymous,
          As long as you are okay with the choices you have made, it is perfectly fine. You do not need to question your decisions if you don’t repent them. What others say is entirely their own opinion. To indulge in casual sex or to stay a virgin is entirely a personal preference and nobody has the right to tell others what they should do.

          @ someguy,
          You seem to be no different from those who glorified virginity. Just that you are at the opposite end trying to promote casual sex as if it is some sort of a game. He ridiculed the non-virgins on the basis of their past and you are ridiculing the virgins on the basis of their future.

          @ Atheist Indian,
          You think that the ultimate reason to find a partner or a relationship is to fulfill the sexual prospects? If a person needs sexual experience, he can buy sex instead of faking a relationship with a girl for the same reason. If only guys desperate for sex had the balls to say it out to a girl instead of all the crappy things they call love. Or else have the guts to go and buy sex for the sake of experience.

          Its ridiculous how people love to enforce their personal opinions regarding virginity or promiscuity on others.

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        • @ Jyothi
          You got it all wrong. It is not psychologically healthy for men and women to remain involuntary celibate for decades at a time. It alters their mental markup in a way that might not be obvious to the untrained lay person. The whole ‘dirty old man syndrome’ is a manifestation of men’s incel in youth. A woman’s inability to stop fantasising about a ‘prince charming’ (as opposed to a normal human male) is a manifestation of her own incel. People start to believe they deserve something ‘special’ because they have borne so much of frustration in the hunt of the ‘perfect partner’. What they don’t understand is that the world does not exist to cater to their whims and fancies.
           
          That some men choose to lie about commitment to get sex is entirely another issue together. And frankly, you’re quick to jump to value judgements here. It is not ethically wrong for someone to have a relationship just for the sex. I have had such arrangements – consensual ones and they worked fine. You might be surprised, but a lot of women like sex for sex and are not in it for the love, romance or whatever. Even in India.

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        • Atheist Indian, I wanted to comment on your reply to Jyothi, but unfortunately there is no reply button there. I agree with what Jyothi says.

          (The first paragraph of) your reply to her is one massive ipse dixit fallacy. And even if you were to search, I very much doubt you would find any reputable studies to back up your assertions.

          And you are contradicting yourself. In your earlier reply, you criticize the anonymous poster for being celibate by choice. And when your reply is (rightly) criticized, you project a laundry list of imagined ills on someone who is involuntarily celibate.

          Bottom line: people are free to make their own choices. And as long as those choices don’t hurt other people, I don’t think it is right for anybody else to criticize or shame those choices. This is one of the bedrocks that feminism is built upon, but it applies to male choices too.

          Sex is nice, but it is only one small part of the delights that life offers. In the Indian context, not everyone may be okay with being cast into the uncomfortable mold that is traditional marriage, only for sex. And unfortunately, it may not always be possible to have a sex life if you are unwilling to be cast into that mold. In which case, the best option is to remain celibate, until the time when (and if) we meet a partner who really compliments us and accepts and desires for what we are. And if we don’t meet such a person, that’s fine too – it is certainly better than the alternative that you suggest.

          Peace,
          – Another atheist Indian🙂

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        • “I very much doubt you would find any reputable studies to back up your assertions.”
          First, it is not an ipsie dixit fallacy, since I did not claim authority but said it is an observation (personal). Second, who is going to fund such a politically incorrect study with no vested interests behind it? It is like a study in Victorian England against homophobia (which didn’t exist because no one questioned the status quo). Take another example – there is not much available about the psychosexual development of those with Down’s Syndrome. As far as mainstream psychologists are concerned, Down’s Syndrome people are asexual, when I have observed otherwise.

          Given that the commenter complained, on more than one occasion, how difficult it is to be social with women and get laid, it is clear that the celibacy here in not voluntary. The illusion of choice here is his ego protective mechanism, just like the 51-year old priest at my local baptist church who still believes he is ‘waiting for someone special’.

          I am not shaming him for his choices, I was simply pointing out that if he choice is a ‘choice’, than it might not do him good in the long term. It is the same line that I would tell someone who is suffering from clinical depression, to get help. Just because it is their ‘choice’ to wallow in their condition doesn’t mean they don’t deserve the ‘push’ to seek help.

          Like

        • @ Atheist Indian,
          It is hilarious to see you talk about the development of a person’s mentality while you cannot even comprehend what others are talking of in their comments. I went through the comment by Anonymous over and over again after reading your reply but couldn’t find where he complained of // how difficult it is to be social with women and get laid //. Nowhere does it appear that his choice to remain celibate is involuntary or forced. Why should it be a problem then?

          I remained celibate for a long time for the fact that I wanted to be with someone whom I connect with. Not for the sake of *experience*. Not because I considered sex as immoral and not because I was low on libido. Once I found the right person I was okay with it. But again, not that I was in search of a partner just for sex.

          Personally, some people do not find it okay to share their bodies with many people just for the sake of momentary pleasure or *experience*. But then there are people who are fine with consensual sex as and when they need it. It is entirely a personal choice. To claim that one choice is superior to the other is entirely weird.

          Of course like men, there are a lot of women who like sex for sex. I was only mentioning the example of men who fake love to get sex and do not have the guts to accept it. But then again, it may surprise you that just like there are a lot of people who like sex for sex, there are a lot of people who want to wait for the right person and the right time. Surely not because they are vary of some concocted psychological theory about the adverse mental after effects of remaining celibate for long.

          Like

  41. Oh my god did someone really write this piece of shit. I feel sorry for this jerk who is derived himself of the pleasure of being loved and wanted in a real relationship. Believe me there are strong men out there who will accept a woman virgin or not because of who she is. There is no way to determine a woman’s virginity except taking their word for it. There are a million ways in which a woman’s hymen can break without her involving herself in sexual acts. So please educate yourself. I pity the woman who will marry you… (shudders at the thought)

    Like

  42. //Having consensual premarital sex is an act MOST SELFISH in itself//

    But wanting to marry a virgin is not, is it?

    //you are expected to maintain her in spite of her becoming unattractive ?//

    What happened to all the unconditional love BS you just spoke about? And what do mean by “maintain”? Marrying someone isn’t like buying an apartment where you have to “maintain”.

    First get some logic into that brain of yours and then talk for all the men out there in the world.
    P.S Thanks for the entertaining post. I needed a good laugh.

    Like

  43. //what was your education level when u slept like a *** ?//An emotional judgmental statement without any logic

    //What was your education level when u were selecting the wrong partner ???//Partners are not always wrong , sometimes circumstances also go wrong. Sometimes realization that the person is not right for you comes late. Sometimes the partnership is never meant to be a life time thing, but only a phase of life.

    //The moment I realized the girl is not a virgin – my respect on her came crashing down…// Why ? Why is your love conditional upon her virginity? Why did you lost respect for her? Did she stopped caring for you, loving you, or being a good partner to you, after your realization? Your losing respect for her is actually a defensive manifestation of you realizing that your selfish desire of a virgin partner in not going to be fulfilled with her.

    //I then reinvented myself and realized that it is something inborn in EVERY MALE… I am sorry Ms.Feminists – thats pure biology…// No it is not. It is not present in every male. It is not biology. It is SOCIOLOGY.The years of conditioning.

    A zoologist will tell you that animal world has no concept of virginity. Males do not reject females if they are not virgins. Even in humans, western societies males loves and cherish non virgin partners, because they do not have the conditioning to do otherwise

    //Would you marry a non-virgin girl (Not talking about widow / innocent divorcee – but a girl who willingly indulged in consensual premarital sex) without considering her past ? // Millions of men do happily, willfully, knowingly. Look at the western world.

    //Or would you willingly accept your daughter-in-law / son-in-law who is a “slut” in your eyes ?// I might not accept it but that’s me. My son/daughter does.

    //Having consensual premarital sex is an act MOST SELFISH in itself… You just care about pleasing ONE ORGAN in your body and for that you are going to throw away your parents hopes and //
    Parents hopes of what? Education, career, friends, social circle, marriage, children, succesful happy lives.? All these could happen even with premarital sex.The only hope to gets dashed is a that of society approval from a perverted society. Better it gets broken.

    // probably going to hide this to your future spouse// An assumption, based solely on arranged marriage concept. A lot of people have love marriages where this assumption holds no value. Even in arranged marriage many people tell these things. Also do realize that this “hiding” is done only because of society pressure. Take away the pressure, people will tell. Will you be all right with it then?

    //… If you really love someone so much that you are ready to have sex – then why not marry them first and then have sex ? // Because to some people sex requires LESS love than marriage, sometimes none at all. Different people , different requirements, really it is as simple as that.

    //Deep within YOU WANT JUST SEX // YES , WE JUST WANT SEX , MERE SEX. WHAT IS WRONG IN THAT?

    Even in a marriage, people mostly have sex only for pleasure. Separate from reproduction. Or even love. Why don’t you call that wrong?

    //How is that after having sex several times a person suddenly appears bad that you should leave him ? // Because the realization has nothing to do with having sex with him. They are independent. Until you leave because of sexual issues, in which case you could not have realized the issue without sex anyways

    //If you leave him, is it love in the first place ? Would you not struggle until you are alive to change that person from going on the bad track ? // No you do not struggle till you are alive, you try, but at some point , if you feel it is never going to work you move out.

    //I had analyzed pretty deep- what exactly runs in a girls mind … // Assumption that objections are only from family, sometimes people themselves are not sure. Also as said before sex does not require love, not for all people.

    //You dissect her mind … “slutty” guys too…//Please read my post on the cake theory

    //It is a question of adherence to culture that nurtured you.//. Not all nurturing is always right. And nurturing does not mean blind obedience too. One can and should reject those aspects of his nurturing he does not agree to or deem right.

    //It is a question of respect that he/she chose to throw away…//What does that mean? Do these people tell you that they feel ashamed, guilty and respect themselves less for having PMS?? If not , how you say they threw self-respect away?

    If you are talking about your respect, well they really don’t care about your opinion of them. Don’t be a “khisyani billi khamba noche” ; forcing them to respect your opinion of them

    //If they have not respected their body enough to preserve themselves what is the need for us to respect them ?// If it about body, let me tell you this. Sexual needs are one of the most basic, primitive , almost involuntary needs of human body. Ask any qualified doctor, they will tell you that people who get regular, consensual pleasing sex have healthier bodies and minds.
    Considering this, satisfying this need is actually more respecting your body than keeping it deprived.

    //A virgin’s love is PURE AND UNADULTERATED…// Love is another human emotion, just like anger, sadness , joy, surprise and so on. Nobody associates purity to any of these, why only to LOVE?

    //Consider this .. There is a new born kid and he grows up recognizing his mom/dad. Suddenly this kid is introduced to a new set of parents – will the kid really love the new parents the way he loved his mom/dad ?// Enough examples are there in real world to answer this question – YES they can and they do.

    //They cannot love the next with all their heart atleast as much as they did with the first one…// Again enough examples are there in real world to answer this question – YES they can and they do.

    //And with guys who “dont mind” marrying non-virgin girls… You guys are the best hypocrites… // This statement is born more out of your thought process than any objective reality

    //soon after a delivering a kid – Indian girls have the tendency to bloat// WOW, Indian girls , please punch this guy from me if you ever meet him

    //other guys enjoyed her body, youth and beauty for FREE //So they should have paid her or what? Guess you consider marriage as payment for sex to a women. Well sad for you, but that’s not the currency of love.

    //and you are expected to maintain her in spite of her becoming unattractive ?// What is this maintain her? Again you seem to consider marriage as a payment for women body and asking why you should continue to pay ( remain married ) when the body is not as good.

    //It is about everything – the sharing of emotions, …She has given it all to someone else // How does one give emotions to anybody else? So she talked about her life to somebody else, why does it stops her from sharing them with you?

    //are you not lying// No we are not. Don’t turn you inability to accept the truth to calling us liars.

    //I expect certain standards in a girl– and the primary standard is she being a virgin// Being a virgin is no standard. Good education , good job, well read, these are. Virginity is not.

    // AND I AM PROUD TO SAY I AM A VIRGIN AND NEED ONLY A VIRGIN ..//You choose to be a virgin. Good for You, You want a virgin partner. Fair enough. But there really is nothing to be proud of, in all of this. You can be proud of the fact that you made a choice and stuck to it; but the choice itself has nothing superior to it
    .
    //Virgin may be better than non-virgin in the bed// Life is not spend in a bed

    // cuz there are no emotional baggages from the past…//If there are no emotional baggage, there is chances of emotional immaturity also. A girl with past might sometimes think of her partners, but she can also realize the mistakes in her past relationship and learn from them , increasing your chances of successful relationships.

    An example: a virgin marries a great guy who is otherwise ordinary looking. Now when she sees a greek god who is otherwise a jerk, she might think “ why did I not marry him , he would have so much better than my average looking guy” A non virgin who has been with that guy will realize that looks are only that much and will not want to marry him, but rather appreciate the fine qualities of her husband much more.

    A virgin does not have experience to compare you with. If you lack confidence you seek it and like this inexperience. However, If you truly believe that you are worth her, you would not mind her comparing you to her past, for you will be secure enough in your worth

    // A virgin would have a cleaner conscience and healthy emotions – a prerequisite for great sex// Non virgins have these as well, they are not sole property of virgins.

    At the end all I will say is please open your eyes and look around. There are enough people with non virgin partners living successful lives, that there is simply no way you could make the argument that virgins make better partners.

    PS 1: On the concept of “innocent divorcee” I find it rotten beyond contempt. As if a women worth is all about the count of penises she has…..… . She is a human being for god sake, not a pencil sharpener which becomes dull edge depending upon how many pencil it has sharpened.

    We say marriage is about emotions, and than we advertise sexual status even within marriage with terms like innocent divorcee / consummation of marriage. They are living proof that marriages have always been a sexual contract in the guise of emotional bonding. I spit on such hypocrisy.

    PS 2: How many times have I used the word “ virgin” here . It makes me sick.

    PS 3: Apologies for a very very long mail. I just could not help it

    Like

    • “Parents hopes of what? Education, career, friends, social circle, marriage, children, succesful happy lives.? All these could happen even with premarital sex.”

      It’s actually a lot stronger than that, it’s not just that it “could happen even with”, instead I’d go much farther and say that the *best* chance of having them happen is to marry someone you’ve known very well, including sexually, for a long time atleast a year.

      That’s right, If my daughter came to me and said she wanted to marry a guy she’s never lived with, and never slept with, I’d be extremely skeptical. If she decided to move in with him, have sex with him for a year and *then* to marry, I would consider this a wise move, and much preferable to the stupid and harmful “virginity until marriage” thing.

      Additionally to this, people marry late these days, often near age 30. Consensual sex between adults is one of the nicest things life has to offer, would I really want my children to miss out on ~15 years of nice experiences for absolutely no benefit ? Hell no ! (this was much less of a concern earlier when people married at 18)

      So when people like this joker ask if I’d “accept” it, they show deep ignorance of what happens with sexual freedom. I’d not merely “accept” it, I’d be *enthusiastic* about it.

      “//probably going to hide this to your future spouse// An assumption, based solely on arranged marriage concept.”

      Yes, another drawback of sexual repression is relationships and a society built on lies and deception. A lot of people in non-accepting cultures simply lie about their sexual experiences. They don’t have much choice if the culture would punish them for the truth. Lies are not good foundations for healthy relationships.

      Neither I, nor my wife had any reason to lie about our previous history. Instead, like adults, we *talk*. There’s pictures of her previous boyfriends, and my previous girlfriends in the photo-albums in our living-room, even our children are aware of these people existing. I doubt this joker can even imagine something like that: a life where we don’t have to be ashamed for being human.

      Like

    • Love this. Very well said. Especially the bits about marriage as a payment for sex (never though of it that way, but so true). Also, women being human pencil sharpeners.. lol!

      Like

  44. I know of the three letter disorders we are usually obsessed with (OCD being one) but seriously is there a thinking disorder that’s not yet come into light? Surely this fine young man must make a very fine example of the Personality disorder!

    Like

  45. OMFG! (and no that isnt the f word most would think..I meant Farting) Seriously!! Here I was thinking, now that the US elections are done with, I dont have to hear another Idiot like Todd Akin et al of his ilk had to say about the Anatomy of women or Men or any Psuedoscientific research in Biology, that is yet to receive a Nobel Prize…Oh boy! was I wrong! I wish there was an abyss we could put such thinkers into.

    Like

  46. I have read the post and all the comments. I have a few things in mind that I will like to talk about. I might not be very organized or coherent but I’d request anybody who actually reads my comment to bear with me.

    First of all, I agree with the views of commentators here. The fetishization of virginity by the author of the post is very disturbing. In fact it’s repugnant. So is his view of women and relationships.

    I have a problem with the word “virginity”. The word is vague, faulty, and arbitrary. It has an ugly past and an equally obnoxious and nasty present. It has been and usually remains focused on women and women’s bodies. “Violations of girls’ and women’s sexual and reproductive rights and health occur every day in the name of preserving and protecting girls’ virginity, delaying sexual activity, or controlling the circumstances under which girls and women lose their virginity. From forced child marriage and female circumcision to the deliberate withholding of information on reproductive and sexual health, the emphasis on preserving virginity has pernicious consequences.” Further, the concept of virginity is largely centred on PIV intercourse, thus is extremely hetero-normative (disregards the experiences of homosexuals or people who have indulged in other sexual behaviours but the penis in vagina variety). I believe nothing objectifies a person more than this concept. Too often a person (especially a woman) is said to have ‘lost value’ if s/he’s not a virgin.

    The virgin/whore (slut) dichotomy where “virgin” is associated with complete sexual naivety and a “non virgin” is associated with a sexual over experience is false, and extremely harmful. Moreover, there has been and continues to be double standard here.There’s a continuum of sexual behaviour and experiences and “virginity” or lack of it shouldn’t be used to devalue and judge others. Shaming and deriding people for having one or more sexual partners need to be stopped immediately. Similarly, people who are either voluntary or involuntary “virgins” (they have plenty of reasons for it) and asexual should not be deemed pathological or “losers”. People who name call or slut-shame and virgin – shame others are actual losers and need to be called out.

    On hymen and bloody first time:
    Hymen- The mythical status of the hymen has caused far too much harm for far too long. “Hymen–its anatomy, its history, and its relationship to a woman’s sexual history–is flawed, incomplete, and yet totally ingrained in our collective consciousness.” Hymen or vaginal corona (the term I prefer) is “located 1–2 centimetres just inside the vaginal opening, not deep inside the vagina. It consists of thin elastic folds of mucous tissue.” Every woman’s vaginal corona looks different. It “can be thick or thin. It can change shape, grow, shrink, or disappear over time. It can have one hole, several holes or have no hole at all (better known as the imperforate hymen; it needs to operated on so that the woman can release menstrual blood, insert tampons or have intercourse. Ironically this least common coronal formation is how we typically misconceptualise it). “This ring of stretchy tissue is leftover from the formation of the vaginal canal during fetal development.” Further, there are myriad ways “girls can stretch and tear the vaginal corona sans sexual activity”.

    In conclusion, vaginal corona isn’t a brittle membrane. It “can’t be ruptured or broken in one fell swoop by a penis or any other object inserted into the vagina. When the mucous tissue is stretched, minor ruptures sometimes develop and may smart a little.” Therese Shechter at adiosbarbie puts it eloquently when she says, “hymens tell as accurate a story about a woman’s sexual history as the tip of a man’s penis tells about his. That is, no story at all.”

    “As far as bleeding is concerned, some women bleed during their first intercourse. Most do not. According to sexpert Alice at Columbia University, It is possible, and common, for a woman to be a virgin and not have pain or blood during her first intercourse. Part of this is about whether or not the hymen has worn away or to what degree it has worn away before intercourse, which, if you’re in your teens, it most likely has to some degree. But often, it has to do with things like not being aroused and relaxed enough, not using lubricant as needed, not having enough outercourse before intercourse, and/or partners or oneself being too hasty or rough with intercourse.”

    Anybody who’s willing to explore about there topics can use the following links:
    http://www.scarleteen.com/article/politics/magical_cups_bloody_brides_virginity_in_context
    http://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2010/06/24/virgins-and-other-mythical-creatures/
    http://www.scarleteen.com/article/body/my_corona_the_anatomy_formerly_known_as_the_hymen_the_myths_that_surround_it
    http://www.adiosbarbie.com/2012/01/regenerating-hymens-and-bloody-sheets-whats-really-going-on-down-there/
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cristen-conger/sex-myth_b_1154683.html
    http://www.ourbodiesourblog.org/blog/2008/12/the-hymen-breaking-the-myths

    Lastly, I just want to say that there’s no definitive marker of virginity or lack of it (the only way to find out is to ask your partner and trust whatever they say is true) and a marriage license isn’t a magical key to a healthy and pleasurable sex life.

    Like

  47. Pingback: Sex before marriage, what’s the big issue here? | Relationships, Love & Sex

  48. Pingback: Sex before marriage, what’s the big issue here? | Relationships, Love and Sex

  49. Pingback: “There is so little conversation about a woman’s desire for sex that a lot of people simply assume it doesn’t exist.” | The Life and Times of an Indian Homemaker

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  54. Pingback: “This impudence of a widow to fall in love cannot be tolerated by any man. He punished Soorpanakha by mutilating her nose and ears.” | The Life and Times of an Indian Homemaker

  55. So true…deep down everybody wants sex.it is so sad that to live in a society in which you have to go through rituals in front of 500 people to get their consent to have sex. People marry more than once but if they change multiple partners they are judged

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  56. Pingback: “This man is openly threatening his daughter and is instigating others to burn alive their daughters.” | The Life and Times of an Indian Homemaker

  57. i liked this …very much …!!!! i agree with you totally ..i don’t know what others think but personally i liked it …. i believe that if there is so much love between the couples that they are ready to share everything including their bodies then why are they afraid of getting married …it shows that they they only want sex and nothing else ..and when they are satisfied they woukd find someone else …. and i don’t know about every men but i know one thing and that is , most of the men would feel proud when they will know that the girl was a virgin…even if they don’t show it … be it any man from any part of the world …
    i don’t understand one thing .how can one marry someone else if u already have given rights if ur body abd soul to someone else … !!

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  58. Pingback: “Girls need to be little bit aware of the consequences. Men – will enjoy …” | The Life and Times of an Indian Homemaker

  59. Loved ur comment man…all truth…but seems lyk it dsn’t go well wd d feminine bastards.

    Agreed dt evryone has a way to live thier lyf…agreed tht women or men’s virginity doesn’t guarantee loyalty…but it doesn’t guarantee loyalty on being a non-virgin either…all of u horny bastards think that having pre-marital sex is fine in the name of loyality,trust and shit and later you can dump your partner and say that he/she wasn’t right…i mean…really?(lol)…shouldn’t you be first going on the very first stage of understanding and analysing each other carefully before jumping into the bed?…douche bags who claim this stupid idea of not judging anyone from the virginity,doesn’t implies to all… I agree few people lose their virginity and later they realise that the partner they chose was wrong…but does it implies to everybody??… Is everyone of them too dumb to realise that their gf/bf is a bad person???…Almost 95% of you can very well analyse your partner…by not having sex of course…but you choose NOT to…you just wanna get laid,enjoy,throw your partners away and then move on…

    You guys are saying that the article he wrote is bizzare,awful,piece of shit etc etc…that means not having sex with the other people in your lifetime is the same bizzare,piece of shit and all that…And even one of you wrote that love and virginity doesn’t go together…really?…is it with everybody??….that means you’re ok to love a person who had sex with someone else just to have pleasure or he/she loved him/her or…the mostly possible condition…was a complete douche bag. Instead of realising your mistake,you wanna cover it up with such stupid excuses.

    Ok fine,you can manage to love someone who had been pleasuring other person for a time being. But does that person really loves YOU now??…are you sure??…what if he/she dumps you later on the same way he/she dumped their previous partners??…. Well,let’s see…

    I know many people will call me an orthodox…but you all…first satisying your lust and then covering it with a statement by screaming out loud that, “LOVE AND VIRGINITY SHOULDN’T BE THE SAME THING”…doesn’t that sounds like covering your stupidest mistake in a way?… I’m not saying that i don’t agree to this love and virginity statement…i do…but sorry guys….it doesn’t imply to all of you. In fact,unfortunately,most of you.

    Like

    • Actually it exposes all the free thinkers that these people are claiming to be. There is one comment in which the guy says that this guy couldn’t get some which clearly exposes his mentality. He is the kind of guy whose manhood depends on getting some pussy. I bet when he is alone all he thinks is number of women he got.

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  60. Pingback: ‘I’m now thoroughly convinced that the entire concept of virginity is used to control female sexuality.’ | The Life and Times of an Indian Homemaker

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  63. Pingback: The video is speaking against the acceptance of rape, acid attacks, honor killings, forced marriages etc that are viewed as normal ‘Consequences’ for women. | The Life and Times of an Indian Homemaker

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