“The same man who rape a girl… respect his mother…so please go ahead and teach them what you want to…”

This post is a response to a facebook comment (in blockquotes) to a Khap critical post by Akanksha Dureja.

are you counting genuine rapes…………or you also included sex between girl friends and boy friends in name of love………….

1. Love or lust, girl friend or wife, stranger or sex worker, if both are above the age of consent and if both the partners said Yes, then it is not rape, it is Consensual Sex.

2. If there is pure love, lust-ful love, devotion, high skirts, girl without morals, girl who has other sexual partners, a sex worker – but one partner did not consent – then it is Rape.

I don’t have to go to newspaper to know these things………When every channel….advertisment……movie……….will project girls as item girls……..do you still believe that rapes will come down …….

Do Haryana men have more access to these things than the rest of the world?

More than media it’s the society blaming, shaming, condemning the victim [An example -“13-year-old rape victim and her two sisters, studying in a government school here, left the institute…”]  for crimes committed by criminals (rapists) that emboldens the rapists. If rapists have to face the consequences of their own crimes (condemnation, conviction, jail, fines, social boycott etc) they would think before planning sexual assaults.

Society needs to start taking sexual crimes seriously, Indian men need to be educated about a woman’s right to say Yes (or No) to sex.

If you advocate ….. girls for wearing dress which are short from both direction in name of fashion………and independence……….then I guess you can never stop these rapes but surely you can write 1000 articles on it. ……….. I never advocate a rapist and I agree it is the worst thing a man can do ……… But everyone doesn’t want to rape a girl from birth …or it’s no anyone’s hobby…………..We are still unaware of real reasons of this ……. and yet we keep on advertising women as an object rather than subject…and keep fighting……..We can never control a disaster like this by only controlling man or woman.

In fact it’s exactly the opposite.

‘Mr Balvinder Singh’s experience in Nagaland shows making rules about covering up a woman’s body, is the beginning of objectification of women, to ensure ‘excitement’ does not ‘turn into monotony’.

“While a small cleavage visible under the thin dupatta or through the pallu of a woman’s saree is certainly a pleasant sight for any man worth his salt, without harbouring any malafide thoughts in the mind, but there in the villages of Nagaland it was an anti climax to see the dangling pairs of bare boobs, available to look at in abundance in all shapes and sizes. Initially they were a cause of some excitement, which was natural , but gradually the excitement turned into monotony. I was reminded of the words of a famous poet that the ‘beauty that is veiled looks more beautiful’.” [Click here to read the entire article]

Read more here.

You may also like to read – Rape and clothing: How it’s all dressed up – A guest post by Praveen Talwar.

The same man who rape a girl……. respect his mother……..so please go ahead and teach them what you want to…………………………..We are here not fighting at a topic of so called Woman or Man………but we are actually finding a solution for the disaster…………Raping is a mental disability…..or a sexual surge…….But please don’t think that woman are away from it, even there are cases on harassment on men……but nobody ever believe in it because women are projected as weak……We have to end this level of sexual surge… not the human race. The independence will be fruitful when atmosphere is free, otherwise it will only creates confusion.

Most Indians see the women in their family as ghar ki izzat –  they are capable of Honor Killing their own mothers, daughters, sisters and wives if they realise that they are sexual people.

Sorry to say Ma’m, I am not supporting rapist….please open your mind and see world without rage and hatered………..Men never made culture…its women also…….Sex in college doesn’t happen only with consent of male…….female also support it fully…..and this is the real truth we see around us today……….you want to blame men …surely you can….but women too are not so innocent as you are trying to project…………..I am again saying that I am against rape but not against man or woman……..

Sex in college (or anywhere), where there is consent from two adults is not rape. It is not even illegal.  More information here: Marry Or Live With Anyone Of Your Choice.

And here, Why exactly do we disapprove of Live-in relationships and Premarital sex?

I believe you should understand the cause …rather than blaming. Because blame game is very easy…..as we are playing it from tomorrow…..but the real courage lie in solution. There are 1000 people who can write on rapes…sex workers …lust………But I am still looking for someone who can analyze the reason behind this tendency of sexual assault on opposite sex ( be it men or women)

Okay, here are some simple facts:

1. The first step for controlling any crime is to acknowledge that it is a crime.

2. Making excuses for the criminal encourages the criminal.

3. Blaming the victim emboldens the criminal, it also makes it difficult for the victim to report the crime.

4. Punishing the criminal helps in controlling any crime, it makes the criminal know that there would be consequences.

5. Creating awareness about the crime is a powerful step. Many rapists have no idea that sex without consent is rape.

Many rape victims do not know that wearing a mini skirt, being drunk or smiling at a rapist does not give anybody permission to sexually assault them.

6. Societies which do not take sexual crimes seriously (Like India, Pakistan, Afghanistan) see more sexual crimes. For this reason India is amongst the worst places in the world to be a woman in.

Related Posts:

Khaps are rapists too – Akanksha Dureja

To be a girl in Haryana – Purba Ray

42 thoughts on ““The same man who rape a girl… respect his mother…so please go ahead and teach them what you want to…”

  1. The 6 points you have suggested need to be highlighted in bold and sent to every bleddy babu, neta and puleeswala. If only they had an iota of your clarity.

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  2. IMO these sorts are more dangerous than the perpetrators themselves, because these people genuinely believe that they are progressive and that they see women as ‘equal’. They would fight to the death before they confess that they are chauvinists of the worst sort. And these are the people who embolden the perpetrators and try to justify something as revolting as rape with foolish arguments like basal instincts and human urge!
    As long as such people are around, society will always look down upon the victims and shame them into silence while defending the perpetrators as good sons/ doting fathers/ just husbands etc. led astray by ‘loose’ women and ‘lured’ into committing the crime.

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  3. Here is what this guy had to say –

    Diwakar Pokhriyal Akanksha Dureja………Pre Martial sex …..is same as rape…..the only difference is the consent of both sexes. Even a murdere takes consents of his group before performing a murder. Please take your eyes off. We are here to discuss about right or wrong and not about man and woman. I can see in your all post you never took an approach to solve the isuue….but always trying to put down other side. You can teach everyone the righteousness but no-one learn it with force……..that we all know. Pre martial sex and rape both are equally disgraceful for humanity. I am really shocked to hear that a woman is pointing premarital sex and rape as different. My dear Sis, Sex done before marriage is unacceptable …be it a rape or lust. It seems you are not fighting against rape, but you are fighting against men. If we get freedom …then we also gets responsibility to use it wisely. When girls on their own indulge in sexual activities before marriages …they term it freedom. Please Ma’m fight for the cause…..and that is ” rape and sexual assault” be it against men or women……don’t fight against men or women…….because we can find ugly sides in both men and women.

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    • This guy thinks consensual pre-marital sex is the same as rape? So all that matter is that a girl (someone’s future wife) lost her virginity-seal before marriage.. doesn’t matter whether she wanted to or was forced to (and brutalised in the process). Wow!

      Until this khap suggestion of child marriage women to prevent rapes came along, it never occurred to me that someone could actually think rape and consensual sex are no different. It’s the most basic and obvious thing. How can there even be any discussion about this!

      Shocking and unreal.

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    • //Sex done before marriage is unacceptable
      Yawn! I stopped reading after this. This guy definitely does not understand the difference between consensual sex between adults and a rape.

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    • for god’s sake..what is this guy talking about!!! premarital sex is the same as rape????How? and then does that mean that married women dont get raped?

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    • Geez. I was shaking my head the whole time as I was reading this guy’s comment. “premarital consensual sex = rape”????? Does he understand what rape means, or consent? “sex before marriage is unacceptable…be it rape or lust”. Oh dear god. He obviously has no clue that rapes can occur even within marriage, and that women don’t give lifetime consent once they put on a mangalsutra, or a ring, etc.

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  4. I find this statement of his very unacceptable:
    “Sex done before marriage is unacceptable …be it a rape or lust. It seems you are not fighting against rape, but you are fighting against men. If we get freedom …then we also gets responsibility to use it wisely. When girls on their own indulge in sexual activities before marriages …they term it freedom”

    Why the hell is he getting so twisted about sex before marriage? does that even matter in this problem of Khaaps and rape that is being discussed in that blog post? Again the same “don’t blame us men, blame the women mentality”. Why do some men get so defensive when they have to hear something against men in general? Why can’t they accept that there is a problem and help the rest of us try to fight it instead!
    What a girl does or does not do before marriage is her own concern. Premarital sex in no way qualifies as misusing freedom. And why is he talking about girls “getting” freedom. Girls are not supposed to GET freedom – they are as free and have as many rights as the men ! Or perhaps he thinks that India got independence in 1947, except the women who are still not free coz some people feel they might just misuse that freedom !
    The problem does not lie in what the girl wears or does before marriage – the problem lies in the twisted mentality of the men ! When in the gods name are people going to get something so simple!!

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    • I love this: “girls are not supposed to get freedom – they are as free and have as many rights as the men.” I think so many people have a hard time coming to terms with this fact. Just because men have chosen to infringe on women’s rights for centuries doesn’t mean those rights don’t exist.

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  5. I wouldn’t really waste time trying to reason with this bloke online. He is not ‘progressive’ even by the widest stretch of imagination. He is a rigid, parochial orthodox conservative; a type that exists across gender lines. He is bitter and frustrated about his station in life, hence his thought process is repetitive, incoherent and muddled. His obession with women’s sexuality and clothing points to closet perversion, involuntary celibacy or/and a life of sexual shaming (Hint: projection). To sum it up, the only way to cure these types is to run workshops that provide psychological counselling and some unconventional ‘drills’ to drill some sense.
     
    And while he may seem like someone’s idea of joke, such people are real, VERY real. I have met tons of them in my life, conservatives of all hues and colours who’d probably love to chop the heads of people they disagree with, only if they could get away with it.
     
    “Why do some men get so defensive when they have to hear something against men in general? Why can’t they accept that there is a problem and help the rest of us try to fight it instead!”
    While I agree with the rest of your comment, I can’t see eye-to-eye with this. Men get defensive if they hear something against men ‘in general’ the same way women get defensive if something is said against women ‘in general’. Lets not play Zionist style double standards here, prejudice against a gender using the cover of ‘in general’ is sexism – plain and simple.
     
    And don’t take my comment personally, I am generally speaking.

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  6. Good points .. but on the other side .. when a MALE does all this to a lady and goes home .. what do the ladies on the house DO.

    I know that if anyone came and told my mom, that her son did this , SHE will beat me black and blue without even listening to my story.. and my dad would have probably got his 12 bore out and SHOT me dead ..

    In my small little mind I think that if we continue to talk about MALE – FEMALE .. as two different species these problems will never solve.. we can keep crying hoarse till the cows come home.. it is that person’s fault, It is a mans faults, its a woman’s fault .. mark my words (and all with the thumbs down ready to be pressed , ESPECIALLY you people) Rather then finding faults it is time to act on that RATHER than this ONE ONE-UPMANSHIP.. over who is at fault more a man or a woman or the favourite word these days Society..

    OK I say its all MAN’s FAULT.. yes MEN are like that .. YES yes yes yes yes yes NOW what ..

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    • Not ‘Man’s fault’ Bikram, because a lot of men would never rape a woman (or a man). Rapes are the responsibility and fault of the rapists, also partly, of all those who encourage, defend, excuse or support them.

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      • Thats why i said .. most of the places it is more of finding fault.. you are right the worst are the ones who know they have a friend – a son- a brother – a husband – a relative who is a rapist and still do nothing ..

        Ro ro joon handaavaa – Mere sukh na likhiya bhaag
        Ve loko .. Main naari Hindustan di

        Sadiyaan ton main luti jaandi – Kaun sune fariyaad
        Ve loko .. Main naari Hindustan di

        Aje nilami hundi meri -Main wikdi which mandi
        Meri zaat dharam na mera- Main khote di randi
        Mere pairin haje zanjeeraan – Bhaven desh azaad
        Ve loko .. Main naari Hindustan di

        Mard-pune which luk jaandi hai mardaan di har khami
        Meri paak nazar v meri ban jaandi badnami
        Main haan ik JANAANI mera inne hi APRADH

        Ve loko .. Main naari Hindustan di
        Ve loko .. Main naari Hindustan di
        Ve loko .. Main naari Hindustan di

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    • The thing is, you have to find a fault before you can act on a solution. If I get robbed tomorrow and conduct a pooja to prevent further robberies but do not fix my lock, this solution will have zero effect.

      Similarly, we are now looking at people trying to implement ‘solutions’ such as stopping women from working after 8 pm, marrying women off when they are children, not allowing raped girls (children really) and their families to study further lest the disease ‘spread’ and similar ‘solutions’. Do you believe any of these will help? I believe all of these solutions clearly class women as secondary citizens, trying to prevent rapes while avoiding any inconvenience to men and rapists themselves. They will not only increase rapes, they will increase all other types of abuse against women as they make women more and more dependent. If a woman under 40 cannot even go to market on her own or keep a cell phone, is she an equal citizen to a man? Not at all. She is being guarded as an object and no one will care if she is raped or beaten by her husband, a legitimate ‘owner’.

      So we have to actually blame and convince society of where the blame correctly lies. That is the only way to ensure that action is taken to fix the actual problem. Otherwise, we are now seeing women in more danger of being abused and being forced to live stunted dependent lives in the name of preventing rapes.

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    • Somebody who has fallen so low that he commits rape is unlikely to be affected by accusations put forth in the television media or online blogs. He most likely has no empathy which is why he can commit acts like rape. So if you are empathetic enough to feel bad over accusations it is unlikely that you will commit rape. These kind of blanket accusations only end up affecting the men who care enough to engage with the accusers. It is highly unlikely that a rapist is going to engage a accuser online and get worked up over what the accuser has to say . So these blanket accusations are a waste of time, unless the accusers have some other axe to grind. So getting worked up over such things is a big waste of time and energy.

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  7. In reply to Bikram’s comment above about what happens in a rapist’s family once the crime is committed, Bikram, it is equally wrong if your father decides to pick up a gun and shoot you down. Suppose someone has a grudge against you, then he’ll have an easy solution to get rid of you by telling your father something you never did. And rightly, your mom would not need to resort to beating you up black and blue because she groomed you in a way so that she doesn’t have to beat you up for something.

    I have worked in different places and with different classes of people. I remember an incident in a crowded locality in a small town in north India. A young man in his early twenties came running into his house followed by an angry crowd. Soon I came to know that the guy had misbehaved with a girl and her family had gathered a crowd to get him to the police. But immediately, the ladies of his house (including his mother, aunt and sister) came out and took on the crowd and didn’t even refrain from shouting abuses. Their aggressive behavior eventually made the crowd to back off.

    When such an incident happens, there can be the following possibilities.

    1. The criminal hides in his house while his family fights tooth and nail to defend him from the law. (such criminals commit a crime being sure that their family will always defend them)
    2. The criminal though being thrashed black and blue by his parents, is still defended by the family. (the first crime and the subsequent defense by the family forms the basis of further crimes. The criminal usually escapes his home for good)
    3. The father or the mother of an accused simply hand him over to the law. (something extremely rare more so because if the parents/family are so sensible, they will make sure that they properly groom their child so that he or she doesn’t end up being a criminal in the first place)

    While the above scenario usually holds true for the lower class, the upper/elite class is more concerned about the social reputation and money is used to cover up any crime committed by a family member. The scenario of the middle class seems more complex and I haven’t yet been able to think on it in depth.

    The concept of a rapist respecting his mother is rather weird. He may respect his mother just because everyone around him does. Or because he feels obliged to his mother for giving him life. Nothing more and nothing less. But surely one cannot expect a rapist to respect his mother as being a woman.

    But blaming a rapist’s mother completely for not grooming him properly is wrong too. Many times, men grow up seeing their fathers beat up and abuse their mothers. So, a lady who is trying her best to survive in an abusive life cannot be expected to check how her son is growing psychologically.

    As regarding the guy’s comments to Akanksha’s post, I think he took the ‘general’ reference to men personally, more so as it probably pricked some guilt in him somewhere. He also appears to have grown up in surroundings which portray themselves through his views. There would surely be more aspects of his past that lead up to his comments which I prefer not to discuss here.

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    • I wonder, what exactly is the definition of ‘respect’ when people claim that a rapist respects his mother? Is putting her under lock and key in the house (mostly metaphorically, sometimes literally), or ‘allowing’ her to do what she wants in her spare time, or ‘indulging’ her by letting her serve you because she thinks it’s her ‘duty’ – are any of these signs of ‘respect’? Because I don’t believe that any man who is truly capable of respecting his mother, or sister, or wife, would also be capable of raping. So I guess, along with educating people about the definitions of “rape” and “consent”, we also need to teach them what “respect” means.

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  8. “But I am still looking for someone who can analyze the reason behind this tendency of sexual assault on opposite sex ( be it men or women)”

    — i don’t understand this, do we try and analyze other crimes, say murder or stealing, do we analyze a murderer or theif, no we don’t we simply catch them and punish them ( or try to in india ) why analyze the rapists mind, it’s s criminal act , and hence wrong. done. catch him and throw him in jail.

    Why only for sexual crimes we need to find loopholes, maybe he has a tendency, maybe she is wearing short clothes.. maybe .. maybe… does anyone blame the murdered person and say, hmmm he was not of good character and hence got murdered, or hmm they must have showed off their home hence got robbed?????
    WHY is RAPE different, it’s a CRIME, that’s it.
    and if my sons were accused of this, i think as parents we’d shoot first and ask questions later .

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  9. @ Viresh
    Individuals values and attitude towards life are a result of the complex interplay between the different factors in their life – the society they live in, the religion they abide by, their peer groups, their physical stature, etc. Contrary to your *classic* desi wisdom, parent’s can’t ‘groom’ their children like clay molds. It IS possible for good, doting parents to instill proper values on their children and yet the child ends up a rapist, molester or a sociopath of some kind; so I wouldn’t be so quick to jump the gun and blame the parents.
     
    Now please, come up with another verbally incomprehensible twaddle about my possible ‘guilt’ as a parent who sired a rapist son. Amuse me with some more insights into my psyche, Guruji. Maybe I had a past life as a Haryanvi rapist?
     
    @ Ruchira
    Sure thing! Truce. *puts the gun back in the holster*

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    • Atheist Indian,

      “It IS possible for good, doting parents to instill proper values on their children and yet the child ends up a rapist, molester or a sociopath of some kind”

      My sincere apologies to you because before you pointed it out, I never knew that rapists, molesters or sociopaths were people with proper values instilled in them. Sorry to have hurt your sentiments by suggesting that criminals (rapists) don’t have proper moral values. I should rather look for the religion, the type of society, the type of peers and the physical stature of a rapist to find the ’cause’ of a rape. Please pardon my ignorance about the real ’causes’ of a rape.

      But I’m still trying to search in my initial comment if and where I suggested blaming someone who sired a rapist son. If you felt that my comment was about shifting the blame of a rape from the rapist to his parents, then it is only my lack of expressing myself in the English language that is to blame.

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    • Oh please, Mr. Viresh. I am VERY familiar with straw man and word-in-mouth fallacies. You give disingenousness a bad name. I never suggested ALL rapists were brought up with solid moral values, I simply disagreed with the idea that a proper parental upbringing would ‘groom’ people not to have sociopathic behaviour. It is called a ‘rape culture’ not ‘rapist grooming parents’.
       
      Maybe if people like you stopped blaming parents for a person turning out bad, more parents would have been willing to own that their progeny is a bad apple, since it wouldn’t imply their own supposed ‘failure’ as parents. I have tried that route and in five cases out of seven, parents have accepted that their son is a molester/wife beater. But again, to understand things to that level of depth can be a cognitive overload for some people.

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      • Atheist Indian,

        I was thinking that maybe it was my fault that I couldn’t explain my views through my words. But after reading your reply to my reply, I can see it is you who has problem understanding simple English !

        I clearly said that I’m not shifting a rapist’s blame on his parents. All I said was a boy’s parents should see to it that he grows up with a sense of respect towards women. Which would eventually prevent him from committing such a crime. So, if a boy grows up with a sense of respect towards women, his parents should be credited for grooming him like that. AND if parents are unable to ‘groom’ their sons to respect women, it DOES NOT mean they are “rapist grooming parents”.

        How you equalized parents who are unable to ‘groom’ their sons like that to “rapist grooming parents” is something that only your warped mind can answer.

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        • @ Viresh
          “So, if a boy grows up with a sense of respect towards women, his parents should be credited for grooming him like that.”
          Why? For all we know, a man could have his respect for women instilled by the books he read, the people he hung out with, his inherent personal good traits or the school he went to. The same argument goes for women as well. Unless parents have proved themselves to be deserving of the credit, I don’t think parents should be credited for good or bad.
           
          The bottomline of my argument is parents on their own, have very little influence in their children’s value system. Peer, media and social influence plays a larger part in shaping an individual’s values and outlook towards life, especially after the onset of adolescence when people strive to distinguish themselves from their parents. Most intelligent parents understand their limitations, which is why they shift to localities and send their kids to schools where the socio-religious value systems are closer to their own. Which is why schools in Delhi advertise their ‘sanskaar’ or convent-ness. Of course, I am not talking about desi robots, the kind of mama’s boys or daddy’s girls who never learn to think for themselves.
           
          You really need to get over this desi paradigm of people being ‘breeds of their parents’, rather than individual human beings. But given your stubborness to justify your desi guru gyaan and insinuations against my English comprehension, I might as well be trying to reason with the Qutab Minar.

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    • It is not an irony, it is cause and effect.

      Incidentally this is the second time on this blog that I have posted exactly this response to exactly this comment.. don’t know if it was you last time as well.

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  10. The Americans usually give a very sound advice to people like him. It goes like ” Dude, you seriously need to get laid.” I think that will cure many of his mental problems.

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  11. thoughtful articlet
    old minded people who do not like freedom of female, there are females who oppose female liberation , they are using Rape an excuse to cut the wing of flying females.
    other reason is divert attention from corruption

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  12. BTW, in the rightful fervour of getting the criminals caught and punished, we must not lose the general principle that it is always much much better to root out the fundamental causes. Also, deterrence via punishment is usually not the most effective way of preventing crimes. Education, changes in social conditions work much better.

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  13. rape can always be correlated with education and social development, i think if you take the education percentage and social development index and compare that to rapes you can certainly find a correlation

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  14. Pingback: “I will not sit back and allow the image of India’s men to be tarnished by an article that does not articulate other sides to India.” | The Life and Times of an Indian Homemaker

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