“Ninety percent rape victims go willingly, but later they meet criminal minded people…”

Dharmvir Goyat’s exact words:

“Is mamle mein mujhe koi sankoch naheen hai ye kahne se ki nabbe pratishat ladkiyan jaati sahmati se hain, aur aage apraadhi vyakti mil jate hain jo hawas ka shikaar hote hain. Ladki ko ye pata naheen hota ki aage panch… saat… dus … So Nabbe pratishat ladkiyan jaati sahmati se hain, aur aage apraadhi vyakti mil jate hain. Main saaf kahna chahta hoon.” [Link]

Watch him:

Translation:

“In this matter I have no hesitation is saying this that Ninety percent girls go willingly/with consent, but later they meet criminal minded people who are victims of lust. Girl does not know that further there are five, seven, ten… So,  Ninety percent girls go willingly/with consent, but later they meet criminal minded people. I want to state  this clearly.”

So what does he mean?

Is he saying the rape victims go willingly to be raped? He is not.

Does he mean girls in Haryana go willingly to have consensual sex (and that is when men in Haryana rape them)?

And who told him that? Did the rape victims tell him this? Or do Rapists make such claims?

Let’s say the rapists told him that (and he believed these rapists). What motivation could the rapists have to try to claim that the victim came willingly? What does ‘rape-victim-went-willingly’ imply? That the victim intended to have sex/meet a man? Would it help an Indian rapist if the victim is shown to be sexually active?

How difficult it is for a violent, brutal, rape-MMS making rapist with a criminal record  to convince random people, political leaders, NCR cops, Khaps and some TOI commenters, that the rape victim was responsible for the rape?

Does it help the court case? It does. Amongst other things, it could frighten and shame the victim into taking back her case and/or committing suicide. It could shame her family into moving to another place – case closed. It could make many witnesses turn hostile.

So rapists and their lawyers have a lot to gain from trying to show that the rape-victim-went-willingly.

But why do some other people appear keen to have this taken as the truth? How do they benefit from perpetuating such misogyny and rape-myths?

It’s possible that some people see gang-rapes as an appropriate punishment for women who are accused of (or suspected of) wanting to have sex with a man they are not married to?

Stoning is not legal in India, but one can always overlook other kinds of punishments for women who seem to want to choose their own partners. Recently one brother in Delhi killed his sister,

NEW DELHI: A teenager allegedly stabbed his younger sister to death early this morning as he disapproved of her alleged relationship with a boy, police said. [Link]

This brother and others like him would be glad to use Dharmvir Goyat’s statement to warn the girls in their family against daring to think of interacting with men, dating, having relationships with men or even dreaming of falling in love and choosing their own partners.

It seems directly or indirectly rapes are used to control women’s choices and freedoms, whether as excuses to marry minor girls to men they have no way to choose or reject, or by ensuring these girls are not allowed to try choose their own partners.

Related Posts:

19 Rape Facts that Khaps, Cops and Chautala should know.

Gurgaon pub attendant gang rape victim: Went willingly? Refused medical test?

“Girls should be married at 16, so that they don’t need to go elsewhere for their sexual needs. This way rapes will not occur.”

13 things Indian Misogynists believe about men’s mothers and sisters.

31 thoughts on ““Ninety percent rape victims go willingly, but later they meet criminal minded people…”

  1. Half an hour back, I had read the same news. I thought of sharing this but before that I saw you have already written a post.
    This is really ridiculous statement. When I read this comment in the newspaper I was really pissed of by his comment. How come they can make such comments without knowing the truth at all ? Few days before on this case they said child marriage is good. Do they have their minds on right position ?
    It’s look like Taliban kind of ruling in Harayana.😦

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  2. Stupid me! And I actually interpreted the statement as someone saying a good thing…
    As in, rape victim went willingly because the person was known to the victim… hence the rapist was known to the victim, which makes it even worse, hence the punishment should be even more severe….
    But of course the whole thing has to somersault and somehow land back on the victim’s shoulders only. Silly me!😐

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  3. Why am I not surprised? It is not just the Haryana CM, but Indian politicians in general tend to be cognitively shallow and prone to making foot-in-mouth statements. And given that the majority of their votebank are more into demagogy than thinking for themselves, these loony bins get to power. Rather than take personal responsibility for the bad law-and-order situation in the state, he plays the classic victim blaming game that is the forte of Indian politicians, bureaucrats and policemen.
     
    I think it is time that we stop taking elections for granted and actually go to the polling booth, to vote these loons out of power. It might not change things in a day, but once they realise just how much they would lose if they play bad politics like this, they might rethink their policies.

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      • I believe Maya interpreted the original statement to mean that most rapes start off with a girl going somewhere with a guy she trusts, who ends up raping her individually or gang rapes her with a bunch of accomplices.

        I don’t know how much statistical backing that has though.

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    • What is the truth? Can you elaborate exactly?

      I would like you to look at IHM’s post from a couple of days ago about 19 rapes that have been reported in the media from last month and tell me which ones you statement applies to. Yesterday there was news of a teenager in Maharashtra raping a 13 month old baby. Did she go willingly too?

      I’ll tell you what, dress up as a woman one time and go walk on an Indian street. Any indian street, but preferably in the north. Notice how many men lech at you, try to touch you, comment at you etc. Then tell me how many of those you asked for.

      If you mean that the appallingly high rate of rape in India is because 90% of victims are desperate to have sex with random acquaintances, you need to get your brain examined. Most rapes are of young teenagers, going to school etc.. if you think they were all on their way to a sex date, you are delusional.

      If you mean that a woman who is dating a man or sexually active with her partner deserves to be raped by any other random man, you need to go back to school and learn the meaning of consent. Your neighbour watching your tv in your house and a robber breaking in and stealing it are different things.

      You could also mean that women run into men they trust, their friends, boyfriends whatever, but these men rape them. If this is the case, we need to find out what is wrong with SO MANY Indian men that makes them perverse and criminal with people they know.

      Can you explain what you mean?

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      • he he i like getting thumbed down, anyway i m not saying that women need to be raped or that its any lesser offence i m just saying a fact that most of the women get raped by their so called lover and their friends. And i tell you that these kinds of cases are hardly reported because the women thinks she is in fault.

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  4. Here’s the thing that is deeply offensive to me about this.

    This disgusting man could have said that in 90% of cases victims know their rapists.. which makes things even worse as it is a horrible breach of trust. This would make the rapists crime even worse.

    Instead, what he says is that in 90% of cases the women are ‘going’ to have sex consensually but the rapist brings along criminal friends. This obviously says that the rapist did not do anything wrong, the victim was looking for sex anyway (which is BAD) and it’s all their fault. So this can be extended to saying girls should not be sent to school, should be kept at home, should not work, should be married off as children, whatever. This is a horribly leap of logic. Firstly, all those women and children were not ‘going’ to sex dates that went wrong.. that’s just stupid. You only have for sad the cases containing young vulnerable women and children to know this. Secondly, I might be going along willingly with my boyfriend.. that is NOT a crime.. but if he then brings some goons and rapes me, that IS a crime.. so how can this be sued to shift blame to me the victim? How can this lead to the result of advocating child marriage for girls anyway, when the consensual bit is legal in India? It’s irrelevant if the girl was sexually active anyway, that’s not a crime!

    I might not be completely coherent at the moment. My blood hasn’t stopped boiling yet.

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    • Harish, you find that hilarious ?? I guess then you will also find it hilarious when an eve teaser makes lewd comments to females on the road ? Instead of feeling outraged at such statements you laugh at them. Do take a look at the link IHM posted to see how the khap people are actually taking it seriously.

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      • @ IHM
        the khaps can take it as seriously as they want. the law of the land doesnt recognise their validity or any rule which they make. let the khaps go and make a fool of themselves.

        @ Neha
        how does eve-teasing come into this? I never said the guy said anything sensible. but he has the right to give his opinion. you cant stop people from talking. can you?

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        • Harish, I knew you would come up with this logic. But I ask you, if one has the right to speak his opinion, should that hold for an eve teaser too ? I raised this question a few days back on another post here but was silenced by people like you. I had referred to a blogger who said that even eve teasers have their right to speech and should not be stopped. See the ridiculous reply he gave to my question http://www.bhagwad.com/blog/2012/rights-and-freedoms/why-does-only-the-us-get-free-speech.html/#comment-14480

          I completely agree with IHM that the comment by the Haryana leader is equal to hate speech. But according to that idiot blogger, all forms of speech such as hate speech, abusive speech, racist speech, etc. should be protected as the right of the individual.

          What such people fail to understand that speech that is destructive in nature can have serious effects socially more than just offending one or more persons.

          I guess you will also laugh when you see a filthy man make lewd comments to a girl on the road ? Just because you think its his right to free speech ?

          It is people like you who allow such mentally unstable persons to say whatever rubbish they want and get away under the excuse of right to freedom of speech. If only you were a female to understand this is not just laughing matter.

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        • @Neha:… again… the right to freedom of expression doesn’t mean that your opinion should be accepted by everyone, or that it will go unchallenged, or that no-one should try to stop you. It just means that you cannot go to jail or be otherwise punished by the GOVT. for what you have expressed. Like with this idiot in the video, he has a right to say whatever stupid thing that comes into his head, just as we have the right to tell him to shut up and try to get him out of office. But of course there are limitations to freedom of expression (e.g. hate speech, racist speech, etc.), that you CAN be punished for. Btw I don’t think this leader’s statement qualifies as hate speech…

          Again, freedom of expression is about GOVT. regulations, that the GOVT. shouldn’t intervene (in most cases), not that ordinary citizens should just walk by if they see “a filthy man make lewd comments to a girl on the road”.

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        • @Neha,
          Let us not get into a free speech debate. I am sure you know there are points for and against everything you’ve said.

          @Harish,
          Please look up “fighting words” with Google/Wikipedia. Its complicated to decide whether or not eve teasing comes under “fighting words” or not because under some social contexts, it can be treated as direct incitement. We will debate this on my blog when it comes up.

          @IHM,
          I feel your translation seems accurate word for word but somehow left me with a poor understanding. When searching for more news sources I found the Mumbai Mirror had a somewhat clearer version:

          “I want to tell you that 90 percent of the girls willingly go and then they meet people with criminal designs and the girl is not even aware that there are five -seven other men waiting for her. So, 90 percent of these girls go willingly and then they encounter criminals. That’s all I want to say.”

          i.e He seems to indicate that in many cases girls don’t realize that they are lured into a trap by many guys when they consent to meet one. Now, this may come as a shock to many – but I have been present during a scarily similar situation!

          As a prank, a boy I knew wanted to know if his room mates wanted to secretly film him with a girl. Now, these are 21 year old kids who don’t know the difference between consent and coercion. Only one of them (and I) seemed to point out that it’s not funny if she does not think it’s a prank. If she laughs, you can claim all is fine. If she does not, we have to be in jail, you idiots. Which means we actually have to be in jail even if she laughs at the prank . It’s only a small step from here to coercion of concealment and then to retrospective sexual favours.

          Lastly, I wish I could use profanity to directly call out Dharamvir. But I can’t get myself to type the words that come to my mind.

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        • @TheSlightlyChauvinistIyer,
          Why is it that “boys” at 21 don’t know the difference between consent and coercion when “women” at even 12 are supposed to know and gets blamed for consenting? Isn’t this Dharmvir Goyat blaming the girls for consenting to be with one boy she might have loved?

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        • @TheSlightlyChauvinistIyer : You have hit upon a pertinent point. If ‘boys’ of 21 do not know what consent or coercion means, there is something seriously wrong with the social / education system of our country (which, of course, there is). By the age of 21, their education (at home and at school) is pretty much over and they are out in the real world. If they have not learnt about consent or coercion by that age, when will they ever learn?

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  5. He’s trying to imply that it doesn’t matter if women who know something about sex or have had boyfriends before are raped. He might even be suggesting that such women deserve what’s coming to them.

    He’s saying in effect “Look! She was obviously going out with a guy. She’s not new to it! So she was raped. No big deal”.

    It’s an extension of how lawyers used to question rape victims in court about their “loose morals” and whether or not she was “habituated to sex”. And it wasn’t just in India either. Those who’re interested should watch “The Accused” starring Jodie Foster in 1988.

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  6. All these rapists, their friends, people supporting them, khap log etc, etc, — I wonder what happened to their Moms. Are they dead? If not I wish someone would ask them how thy could do such a bad parenting job .

    Like

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