With Nimmy’s permission…

There are many Indias in one India.

That some parents feel too much education might harm their daughter, would be difficult to understand for those parents who feel girls must be self reliant.

Nimmy and ‘A’ had a discussion on her blog, I couldn’t resist requesting Nimmy to let me answer some of A’s questions…

A: Girls should be married off by the age of 18-19…

Me: Not everybody is matured enough to get married at 18/19.

A: Early? Not at all…Bcoz by 20+, they will start making their own choices and will have own opinions

Me: Even when families are there to support, they need their own judgement to be good wives, mothers, daughters, and daughters in laws. Smart girls make better mothers. Children need to be guided by well educated, informed, confident mothers, and education gives all this.

A: So? So, parents should marry off girls before they start having firm opinions and start making decisions for them

Me: And god forbid if they ever need to support their families how would girls who can’t make choices or have opinions do that?

Will any husband not be happy to have a ‘partner’ instead of a ‘ward’? Someone who is a friend and a companion, not another child to look after?

Think Shahrukh Khan and Gauri. Rajeev Gandhi and Sonia Gandhi. Obama and Michelle…. happy couples, and compare them to families where women cannot think independently.

A: Ha, what is the need for girls to have so much education. The role of women in a society to make a good family and bring up kids in a good way.

Me: Educated, intelligent, strong mothers (parents) are a strong foundation that every society needs. Children pick a lot from mothers, their values, their attitudes, and if mothers are educated – she’s a great support for the entire family.

A: All this ‘men-women equality and stuff is bullshit. Women cannot be equal to men.

Me: Happy members in a society make a happy society. Equality simply means if one member is suffering it is as bad as any other member suffering. A child, a woman, a man, an old woman – each one’s happiness is valuable to the society. Each deserves respect and consideration.

A: Let me tell you an e.g. Last day, there was an accident nearby, when a lady bumped into a sccooter-wala and he died..The lady was admitted to mental hospital for weeks..Have you ever heard of a man being mentally unstable just because he met with an accident? …you women are silly and emotionally weak, and let me remind you, they are physically weak since ages…

Me: Men and women both are needed in the society. Both are equally valuable. We cannot do without either. Children and senior-citizens also. If one is weak then they should be given extra support.

About mental stability I only know a large number of women commit suicide in all those societies where women are repressed. Men tend to react the same way when fired, during stock market crashes and during recession etc. Some other men start drinking, some become violent. Both need support.

A: Ok, let me tell you something. What if I sent my daughter to study medicine? Obviously, by the time she passes out, she will be 24 yrs and so, and she will not accept proposals from any men on a lower grade than doctors themselves.

Me: If a girl is a doctor and marries an engineer/MBA etc who does not earn as much as her, but is intelligent and well settled, there is no harm in such a marriage. Many men marry women more qualified and earning more than they are, and leading happy lives. Having a compatible partner does not mean they must earn more/less.

We want the best for our children; we must open our minds to newer better ideas, if it can give them better lives.

There was a time when any education for girls was considered unnecessary; some of our elders made the bold move of educating their daughters, now it’s our turn to do the same. We must evolve.

A: Its ok with her, but not for me, as I have find Crores of money for her dowry.

Me: Look out for boys who don’t ask dowry. You will be surprised to find many such families, who just want a compatible match. In our family we never give or take dowry, and I know many other such families. The biggest blessing of a marriage without dowry is you are sure the boy really likes the girl; he isn’t marrying her for money. There are also no fears of harassment for dowry.  Such families will also respect you and your daughter more than the usual greedy families do.

A: Such people exist only in theory. In practise, all people ask for dowry, and when it comes to higher grade boys ,as like Doctors, they ask for loads of gold and money..So tell me, should I let my daughter become a doctor and finally spoil my life in the name of her dowry, or should i marry off her to an average man, at the age mentioned earlier, when she is not so firm in her choices and opinions..On another note, there is no need for lady doctors…

Me: Some women are more comfortable with lady doctors and it’s a great career for the doctors. Parents can be very proud of a doctor daughter.

A: Yes, tell me what is the problem if there are male doctors alone? After all women are weak enough not to enter areas like surgery and such complicated stuff… Tell me how many efficient female surgeons and anaesthetists have you seen or heard?

Me: Although women are made to choose between career and home, women are doing very well in every field. Class X board results also show that although girls are made to help with housework, they still manage to do brilliantly.

A: That’s the only area where women can empathize with fellow patients..But even in that field, there isn’t a compulsory need. Labour and Caesarean will be fine in men’s hands too. Coming back to the topic I still stand by what i said,” Girls needn’t study much and should be married off early”…

Me: Well educated women, who are independent in mind and attitude, make matured and intelligent mothers and life partners. The whole generation, an entire family benefits.

A: You are wrong. In real time, it is the educated girls who come back to families, while the other end girls move on with their life, rather than shouting for divorce and such.

Me:

1.) If the girl’s husband is having an affair or is unhappy with her dowry and divorces her.  Or if he dies or looses his job – then what will happen to a girl who cannot support herself and her children.

2.) If her parents have no sons, and need someone to take care of them, then will she able to support herself.

A: You are wrong, good girls will find happiness where they go…

Me: Unfortunately this is proved wrong everyday…

Long-lasting marriages depend on compatibility and suitability.

Also happiness in marriage depends on both the partners. No amount of goodness will make an abusive man stop mentally or physically battering his wife.

Greed, violence, lack of consideration, cruelty etc cannot be cured by goodness. This can be somewhat controlled by endless supply of dowry and/or fear of consequences.

Parenting is a serious responsibility. Teaching a girl not to complain is convenient for parents, but it is also irresponsible. Daughters should be able to find ways to solve their problems and also take responsibility for their decisions. Guiding them and helping them achieve this is the parents’ responsibility and duty.

*    *    *

PS: Please do not criticize the person and say anything bad about her/him, as I don’t intend to hurt the person…But her/his thoughts are surely worth discussion, aren’t they?

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65 thoughts on “With Nimmy’s permission…

  1. IHM – Though this post has a lot of points which makes me think, one thing is for sure.

    Its not that good girls can find happiness everywhere. There is a lot of difference between being content and happy.

    Its just that girls stop dreaming and reaching newer heights once they find that their everyday life is not peaceful.

    Me- It also became too long, but I wanted to answer everything in that post… I agree with what you say Bindu! I also feel that there is nothing in my response about the girl’s happiness… Just wanted to answer the question…

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  2. When you hear news items like ‘grandmother and mother killed twin daughters’, such discussions seem like a waste of time. It is shocking and a national shame that infants are being killed because they happen to be girls !!

    Me – I believe that sums up … that is just a symptom of all that’s wrong with our society.

    What equality are we talking of? Girls are being denied a right to even live!!!

    Me – And mothers who participate in this don’t realise that they are highlighting their own (perceived) uselessness by doing this. 😦

    And people like these women who were driven to take such extreme step constitute a large chunk of our society.
    Me – I agree! That is why wanted to answer these questions.

    The question is who do you blame for this kind of biased attitude, men or women?

    The entire system friendfrom11th! Women belive having girl babies makes them weaker – less powerful 😦

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    • Women belive having girl babies makes them weaker – less powerful

      Women have had no space to even have their own thoughts. They have grown up believing that they are inferior, that their brothers are superior to them. They have been made to accept this as a FACT! In urban areas though this attitude is slowly changing but in rural areas people are still nurturing age old attitudes,beliefs and traditions.
      Men too feel powerful with sons.
      Education and empowerment are the tools that can lead to independence of thought, and ultimately financial and social independence too. That’s the reason there is so much resistance for educating women!

      Me – I agree!!! “Education and empowerment are the tools that can lead to independence of thought, and ultimately financial and social independence too. That’s the reason there is so much resistance for educating women!” – Men are made to feel that empowerment of women is dis-empowerment of men 😦
      Not all men though, because a large number of men have understood that these old values were unfair to half the population. Gandhi included.

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  3. I think all these issues like dowry, unhappy marriages, divorces, mental instability are not necessarily relate with girls education.

    No they are not related, even the most educated woman have attempted to kill themselves, (and often succeeded), because the situation at “home” became unbearable…

    They are debatable topics in themselves. and the solution for each case will different. It is too easy to generalize and conclude. But when it comes to actually handling the issues; each case might need different perspective.

    Me – But it has been seen that when women are suppressed, treated cruelly and have nowhere to go, the repression causes many to kill themselves- I had a link to this one in another post….

    Thinking about most pessimistic way; I feel if a woman is educated and capable of doing something in life; she can sustain through bad patches. It makes her more confident and so does her family.

    But then another thought comes to my mind what about those women who got the literate but not educated ? Who act like almost illiterate when it comes to their daughters and daughter in laws.

    ME – Social conditioning, tradition and habit is more powerful than education. It’s like brainwashing. 😦

    IHM I am going to book mark this post. Next time someone argues with me with such questions; I am going to use these to tape their mouths. Lol.

    If only we could do something about all the conditioning…

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  4. Let me try a few. Views like theirs hurts billions of women worldwide (not just emotionally) – what about that?

    they will start making their own choices and will have own opinions
    – God forbid they become like full human beings in any manner!

    The role of women in a society to make a good family and bring up kids in a good way.
    – Wow!

    you women are silly and emotionally weak
    – Or uncaring bitches, you can’t win

    In practise, all people ask for dowry
    – If you stick to narrow caste boxes, maybe

    marry off her to an average man, at the age mentioned earlier, when she is not so firm in her choices and opinions
    – Of course, she’s your property anyway, send her off like a bag of wheat

    Tell me how many efficient female surgeons and anaesthetists have you seen or heard
    – Well, if there there were not to be any female doctors (as in the past), how could you have many efficient ones? I am not saying there aren’t any, mind.

    Labour and Caesarean will be fine in men’s hands too
    – I am sure someone who never went through Labour/Caesarean will know best about that! And if by chance you did, and had a good experience with the male doctor, that of course proves that all women should be having the same experience!

    good girls will find happiness where they go
    – where definition of good girls = Uncomplaining and unthinking serf

    And IHM, let me say that while I have never commented, I totally love your writing and wait to read your posts.
    However, here you seem to be arguing with A on their terms. I guess low lifes pull others down to their levels.

    to be good wives, mothers, daughters, and daughters in laws. Smart girls make better mothers
    god forbid if they ever need to support their families
    if mothers are educated – she’s a great support for the entire family.

    Me – I know, I know, I was trying not to start a possibly endless argument. I was trying to stick to the topic. There were too many issues in these questions, I decided to stick to the surface questions, and avoided going deep… 😦

    Why only what they can provide to others? Why not that a girl has a right to self determination as much as a boy does?
    Why not that a girl who is given an opportunity to be educated, think for herself and see the world is an all-round happier human being?

    Keep up the good fight!

    Me – Thanks for these brilliant answers!

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  5. Wow first things first YOUR DAUGHTER IS REALLY LUCKY TO HAVE A MOTHER WHO THINK LIKE YOU!!!

    Absolutely, marriage should be between people who understands and are aware of what they are getting into. A young gal who marries thinking of a bollywood romance is surely in for a rude shock :grins: Jokes apart, I think a woman who can think of her own is very very important in any kind of relationship and if she is independent then only she will learn to speak for herself and for her family.

    You have answered everything to the best. Gosh Men Gynaecologist 🙄 I would rather have a baby in my bedroom rather than go to a male doctor :mrgreen:

    Me – You are right Sakshi when girls are married too young, they would have unrealistic romantic notions ! And it is for women to know if they are comfortable with a male or a female gynae! Men cannot decide this.

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  6. “”A: Ok, let me tell you something. What if I sent my daughter to study medicine? Obviously, by the time she passes out, she will be 24 yrs and so, and she will not accept proposals from any men on a lower grade than doctors themselves.””

    my wife is completing her second masters degree, and looks set to do very well in the world of corporate business- i barely scraped through my bachelors, and am increasingly looking at the option of part time work so i can take care of the house. though this was not an arranged marriage, both of us come from pretty conservative families. if the couple is willing, it is possible to break out of gender roles!

    Me – Baruk I know many such couples too. And they are like best friends forever!!! A team or like partners. I feel men need to freed from the burden of having o act like Lords and Masters.

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  7. I wonder how many people like this are our politicians. I certainly hope they’re not our judges!

    Me – There are many politicians who think this way. And I am sure some judges too… though we have seen some good judgements recently. Girls above 18 have been told they can marry whoever they choose, and recently a man and his mother were asked to behave themselves.

    I mean imagine the scene: man beats wife – judge tells her it’s her fault for having argued back with “educated talk” 🙂

    Me – Our media and we will make a lot of noise if hat is all we will be able to do 😦

    We’re not so far away from the Taliban are we? I guess it’s only a question of proportion – how many of these kinds vs how many normal people.

    Me – Now BJP in Haryana has banning of Western Music included in their manifesto… I am speechless.

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    • Not really. They took back the off the cuff statement made by the BJP party president about Western Music. Not the BJP’s viewpoint. I hate the BJP too, but just trying to be fair 😛

      It’s good to fair and objective 🙂 I am glad they did that!! These little, seemingly meaningless things become big Frankensteins in no time 😦

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  8. agree to your answers. A small incident can tell a lot about age in general.

    Whenever I went to my son’s pediatrician, i saw various age kids there. babies, and 13, may be 16 yrs old kid. So I got curious and ask his doc. Til what age kids will come to you till they switch over to their PCP (primaryc are physician)? And doc said, when they turn 21. Aha, medically also till 21 they are kids…. do i make my point?

    Me – IWW but there is a thinking that they be married before they learn to live, in case they start loving their lives and to breathe freely, then they will find a loss of these after marriage unbearable… 😦

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    • i am surprised the thinking never changes
      about 25 years back my grandmother was of the view that girls should get married at the age of 18-19 as they are like kachi mitti which can be moulded in any shape and they find it easy to adapt to new family values, new culture and new family. as they till then must have led a sheltered life they surely will not be exposed to outside world and its temptations so they will not have adjustment problems and will be more malleable
      even now the thinking remains the same/. then where is the progress and development?

      I know we don’t meet or hear this in our everyday lives, but there are still some people who think like this… I feel really, really sad for girls in such families, it’s much worse because all around them they see freedom and happiness. And then is it surprising if they become emotionally dis-balanced? This is a kind of emotional abuse, to tell a girl she is not equal… and that she should not have any choices or any opinion! Anybody with a working brain – even a three year old has choices and opinions… it’s like clipping your own child’s wings, to make life easier for yourself 😦

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    • Yes, that is what i meant to say…that if medically also they are considered children, how come they are forced to marry as children. I got married at 22, and i feel i wish i had waited 3 more year at-least

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  9. You said neither to criticise A the person in question here nor to comment on his thinking
    so i am listening to you JUST NO COMMENTS as far his line of thinking goes but one thing for sure this is the sort of thinking which infuriates me and makes me feel helpless that there are thousands of men even today with this sort of thinking
    as usual all the answers given by you and Nimmi are absolutey right

    Me – I understand Anju, I felt the same way. But then I know that a large number of people in India think like this. This must be addressed and objectively too… because what good would it too condemn someone for what they feel? If we really wish to make any difference, we need to understand why they feel or say what they do. (Copy pasted the same response from Pixie’s comment, she felt the same way, so did I.) Your name sake said, hate issues not people.

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  10. you know I kept quiet and didn’t say much at Nimmy’s because of her really really sweet request at the end…
    But, that didn’t stop me from feeling anger… a strong feeling of *************beeped

    I’m still angry after reading this.. so no cohorent comment can be written.. however objectively I even want to try to be.

    So, will come back when I’m calmer…

    Me – I understand Pixie, I felt the same way. But then I know that a large number of people in India think like this. This must be addressed and objectively too… because what good would it too condemn someone for what they feel is right? If we really wish to make any difference, we need to understand why they feel or say what they do.

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    • yea IHM… you are right. But, you know, some people are never objective about such thinking!!!
      I have people like this in my extended family! Yep! So, no amount of any sort of objective thinking or reasoning helps!
      We have been branded as “bad” for trying to put “wrong” notions into other people’s heads…
      So, it’s difficult to actually change a person’s thinking, but, no that doesn’t stop me from trying everytime!!! 😀 😀

      Me – I am the same Pixie! No trying means no hope, means very, very depressing 😦

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    • You know what IHM? from my own experiance i can say these kind of people won’t change and can’t be changed. They should be *******

      Me – I feel even if they don’t change they should know their beliefs are unacceptable. They should not think we agree.

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  11. I will repeat myself, as I have done in a few of your posts on gender inequality. It is the women in the family who are responsible for it. Well, atleast in quite an alarmingly large number of educated families. Take this. Ma, me and The G sit for dinner. Ma wants some sweets, which I left behind in the fridge. The G promptly gets up to fetch it. Ma instinctively reacts,” Why dont you get it? You`re through with dinner.”

    But why should I? Why shouldnt The G? Ma was embarrassed because her son in law had to get up from the dinner table to fetch some sweets! The episode was seemingly trivial. But it set me thinking. I consider my family to be pretty ‘liberal’ in the way they have brought me up. Most others arent that ‘lucky’! These subtleties manifest in gory forms elsewhere..

    Me – Very true! My mom used to be horrified if my husband picked his own plate after eatin…. Or even if he took a glass of water by himself. She blamed me for not rushing to serve him whatever he needed. Thankfully now she lets him do things his way …

    One cant deny it – there are unrealistic expectations from women in the every day roles that we have to play – as mothers, as daughters, as wives, as sisters.. And those expectations come from the elder women in the family too.

    Me – Yes and sometimes these lead to depression too … 😦

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  12. The reason why some men want less educated and meek wives is because they want to control them…Most men hate being out of control esp. at home…

    Me – Also some men feel ‘Empowered women mean dis-empowered men !!! Mutual respect is not seen as a happier option…

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  13. You know what IHM? Each question is a post in itself.

    Me – Yes these are serious issues Solilo, I know many others think this way.

    “A: You are wrong. In real time, it is the educated girls who come back to families, while the other end girls move on with their life, rather than shouting for divorce and such.”

    Yeah! that’s why women put up with abusive husbands and end up burned or on the streets. Education gives girls financial independence and that is considered bad by many because then girls have the guts to walk out of an abusive relationship. In our society the ones who are meek and listen to elders (even when they are wrong) is considered ideal woman. Others are characterless women.

    Me – It’s changing… (I need to remind myself of that…)

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  14. “A: All this ‘men-women equality and stuff is bullshit. Women cannot be equal to men.”

    XX can never be equal to XY and vice versa when it comes to physical and emotional things. On an average men are stronger physically and women are stronger emotionally and that is the balance to be formed. But many things are now things of the past. Today you have women who fly airplanes and are excellent plumbers. These jobs were considered manly at one time. By nature on an average still women is weaker and that is why reservation at some places and ladies coupe are still a must.

    When one talks about equality, no one is endorsing a test of physical strength. The equality here means where both XX and XY gets equal opportunity in all fields. Both get same freedom to voice their opinion. Only that will make a perfect balance at home. If today’s parents follow it at home then children will pick it from home. If we continue to set the same stereotypes we grew up in then children will also pick up the same.

    Me – I can only agree Solilo.

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  15. Forgive me if I am wrong.. but I never understand what arguing with ppl like this “A” achieves!

    If he had a lil of understanding.. we wouldnt have to explain this to him!

    All you are doing is wasting your energy no ?

    Me – Quoting Charakan on Nimmy’s blog, “I feel it is always better to tell your point of view even on deaf ears just to make them aware that there are other point of views”

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  16. It’s amazing how you patiently reply to such opinions. It is so difficult to reason with someone who does not think that men and women are equal. I mean equally deserving of respect for their views and opinions and their worth as human beings, whatever work they do.

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  17. Just about an hour ago, I was screaming my head Off(yes my neighbours must have heard me and must have quietly called an ambulance to take me away),that if she doesn’t shape up and study harder she will not get a job and will be dependent on the man she marries all her life! I was so outraged at her careless pampered attitude that I had to go on abt how harsh life is for women, and how one must be self reliant, street smart and tough! Now I am not telling her to lose her womanly qualities and turn into a man, but to be woman enough to face this world and life!I have no clue how I’m writing this, becos I’m basically still shaking after the anger I felt that she is not pushing herself enough! I can’t understand how people can do this to their own child, their own flesh and blood, and push her unequipped to face adult life! now after all this blah blah i’ll head over to Nimmy’s and check her post! 🙂

    Aww… These girls!!! 😆 (IHM quickly glances at the brat reading some dumb fantasy fiction and munching spicy bhakadwadi) Now give your daughter a hug Indy!!! She’s a smart, bright, adorable teenager 🙂 She’ll do very fine with a mother like you 😆 !!!

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    • Sigh! I finally felt sorry for her and finally got an assurance from her to work harder,made her do some homework, and then allowed her to go watch “The Time traveller’s wife”, as it was her friend’s birthday today!God these girls!

      Me – What will we do without these brats 🙄 Today she decided to oil her hair… let me write this in a 55 words blog post 🙂

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  18. In today’s age even grandmother’s are so forward thinking.
    Wonder which century that guy belonged to.
    Unfortunately, it is difficult to change such thinking.

    Me – True! My grand parents wanted all the girls in the family to be self reliant! But I am aware that some people still think like this.

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  19. as pinku says… Nimmy kept a lot of patience… but at times I dont know if you can change the pre-concieved notions some people have… sigh..

    Me – Maybe not them but somebody else who is reading that might be nodding their head in agreement and planning to deny their daughter higher education….

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  20. When I first read through this, my blood was boiling with anger. By the time I collected myself to write this comment, I actually started feeling sad and sorry for this chauvinist.

    This is his conditioning, what he has been taught and probably the influence of the environment he comes from. That is what makes it sad.

    What makes this conversation scary and dangerous is his stubbornness and absolute refusal to see sense and open his mind.

    Me – You are right M4, if we keep hearing such things from those we consider wise, we are likely to start believing this …

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  21. Daughters should be able to find ways to solve their problems and also take responsibility for their decisions. Guiding them and helping them achieve this is the parents’ responsibility and duty.—–Hugs to the wonderful mom and ur kids are very lucky to have u as there mother.

    My granny was very modern,she made it a point to get her girls educated on par with her sons,she never thought of that it is difficult to get a match for her educated girls.But i have heard from people that they wont get their daughters educated as they wont get boys with the same education as girls in there caste.

    When a man is unstable he takes liquor and abuses wife for his fate,women also does that??

    Me – This kind of brain-washing is common. Abusing women, traumatizing them, not letting them think, dream, have any goals (other than taking care of the family), denying them education, teaching them that they should use other people’s minds (not necessarily smarter) brains and numb their own thinking power… and then saying they are mentally weak? They say we should be very careful who is giving us our advise. (I am rambling Saritha … you touched a chord)…

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  22. IHM I know you would disagree but I dont see the point in arguing with these type of people coz they will hardly change unless some reality closer home knocks some sense into them…these type of posts substantiate my belief that it is the more educated of us (read degrees) who are more regressive, in fact in the lower middle class I have seen more men who are willing to share responsibility than the upper middle class…its a disturbing trend actually…maybe then the solution is that men also should not be educated too much coz clearly it is not making them more sensible 😛 maybe we should scrap this type of education and start something new which can teach men and women to apply some ideas of equality in their lives…till then hope floats and arguments fly 🙂

    Me – Or perhaps Cilla education has nothing to do with this…. I have seen my old maid talk of educating her daughter and making sure she is never bullied by anybody… I think in such cases parents choose between their peer-group and their children. Some choose their children and spouses, some choose their peer group.

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  23. I m appalled by the nature of questions that have come up here….
    it is becoz such ppl exist in society that we are term a repressed/regressive society. i feel like ….. trying to make him/her see reality. 😡
    sigh….. 😦 i pity that person’s daughter…. may god bless her 😐

    Me – Ashwathy it is as if a girl’s destiny depends so terriblt on where she is born, no RIGHTS, purely CHANCE. 😦

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  24. Well lets see, to start of with I have never in my life agreed that women are the weaker sex, they are more tolerant, compassionate & definitely more resilient.

    Then, comes the stereo type of women being emotionally weak or just simply being emotional which is more to do to empathy as a factor in women psychology plays a major role than in men, so being emotional has nothing to do with mental or physical stability in a woman.

    And, also when you get married you are looking for a companion, someone who is intelligent, some one you can relate to, talk to, discuss your kids, you aint looking for a nanny or a nurse to take care of your kids & do the household. And, lastly of the Indian stereotype of men are the financial support and women the household slave is utterly stupid because sub consciously a lot of men know that their wives can earn more than what they can & thus are never allowed to work.

    Me – I loved these lines !!

    And for my opinion on women simply read
    Women Are Always Beautiful

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    • India holds the thrid position in child marriages.. So much of pregressivness here uh? /maybe we will be more progressive and end up becoming first..hip hip hurray to all such indians.. :- /

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  25. I am really sad and angry to hear people say such mindless things….

    but then we are product of our environment… and our environment consist of people like that… 😦 😦

    nice replies IHM..

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  26. It’s gob-smacking that this kind of traits still exist in our society. Maturity and sense of equality needs to catch on. I am very happy that you took the liberty to address this issue with your opinions.

    I took Nimmy’s permission first 🙂

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  27. ah IHM..I just read the post..Bravo I must say,as i was not able to adress the qstn oblectively..There is no point arguing with such of people,instead,we must adress them logically..These are not just chuvanist-out of century kinda people..There are around you,everywhere..well,majority of people are like this,deep inside their mind..If i am wrong,tell me now.

    The main reply i had to hear from him/her was that “You women don’t know the world outside and hence you are making theoritical stmnts”..I kept asking him/her “How will we know the world and gain experience if you guys don’t let us? ”
    Reply came,”Oh,you alone is going to change the world”..
    Me,” Not really,but if i do my part, atleast my daughter will benefit from it”…
    Reply, “Oh,so you want your daughter to become a feminist kinda girl and ruin her life” …

    Me – You were awesome Nimmy!!! It’s so true that if you and I do our part our daughters will benefit from it!!! Proud to know you Nimmy!!!

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  28. In this advanced scientific world, why is the practice of dowry still existent especially with the city dwellers, who are highly educated and hence assumed to be outside all the ‘blind social stigmas’?? To find a marriage with out exchange of Gold or money (of course car, silver and what not) is to find a politician who is uncorrupted. Both do exist but very very rare. And I blame both the girls side and the boys side equally for the wide spread practise of dowry.

    Destination Infinity

    DI I think we should have equal property rights and we must expect daughters to take equal responsibility, dowry is often seen as their share in the property by daughters… Marriage need not be any more a desperately required step for a girl than it is or a boy… we don’t think twice before a boy marrying a girl who is less qualified, we should think of girls marrying for companionship not financial security. When that happens most of the other things will fall into place.

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  29. fantastic post,IHM.
    Sadly even today there are people in our society,who think daughters are a burden and getting them educated is nothing but sheer waste of time & money.for them the earlier the girls are married off the better.They fail to realize that education can make their daughters self-reliant and independent,to say the least.

    Let me tell you about this girl I know.Her parents were the presswalas(people who iron clothes) of our locality.The girl was very bright and smart,and she used to go to one of the most reputed schools of Delhi.She passed out of her 10th with very good marks.She even expressed her desire to become a teacher.She wanted to finish her school and college and get on with realizing her dreams.
    But sadly,her parents somehow didnt see the point in educating her further and got her married off.

    Today she is married with 2kids.I meet her occassionally whenever I’m at my parents and cant help wonder at the turn of her fate.Just because her parents felt she had no future by pursuing her education beyond 10th,she is slogging herself ironing clothes for others,because thats what she is supposed to do?

    At the same time I’m glad that her parents had a heart to get her educated to some level.She knows its worth today and I’m sure she will do everything in her power to make her kids know its importance too.

    I hope so Deeps!! My worst nightmare is to stop growing and learning… I can’t imagine how seh must have felt 😦

    We knew this girl in college who was a brilliant scholar, but her parents – highly educated parents felt she should be married off – just because – (her bad luck) – a ‘suitable’ proposal came, she was horrified at the thought of being married when she had been dreaming of conquering the world in her own way, but she was married… She is living a ‘normal’ life, not miserable but not happy either… Her brother was handed over the dad’s business but he ruined it and sold it. Why couldn’t the parents have involved this bright mind in the family to help run the business? She would have made a successful business woman and would have married a suitable boy at the right time…. I met her mother who was unhappy with the son’s life but I felt no sympathy for her. Now she runs to the daughter for advise, but she didn’t think this girl had the capability to take any decisions earlier, just because they felt getting married was the only goal in their daughter’s life… what a wasted life!

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    • yes,fate of a girl lies in her parent’s hands..I am thankful to my dad that he forced me to study and pursue a career..But something somewhere happened..ah…

      Even to this day,he asks me everyday,”Can you please find anything better to do ,than being a housewife”..

      Like

      • My mother comes from a village,from a big family of 10 siblings..My grandfather ,I adore him, made it a point to teach all his kids,5 girls and 5 sons as much as they wished..My mom completed B.A English literature,my aunties did their P.G,(well,some stopped by +2 ) ..whatever,it amazes me that people,years back,that too from remote areas, knew the importance of education,but in 2009,people livining in metros are talking the regressive way..Strange…

        Me – Nimmy Gandhi and Nehru 60 years ago decided that women – 50% of the nation’s population should have education and must contribute in all the ways they can… they influenced the thinking of a large number!! Now our leaders have decided to stop worrying about education and start worrying about Western music, pubs, and jeans…

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  30. so the women who sit in parliament are definitely robots …inference from your post .
    And they will make a 30% reservation in women in parliament. did i hear that right ?

    🙂

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  31. 😥

    why did u put that PS, IHM??? *crafty silenlty puts aside all the sarcastic nuclear bombs*

    this is heartbreaking to read… all those thoughts… as if a girl child is some kinda punishment meted out to the parents… what next?

    all this “care” about getting her “married in time”… coz if she happens to have unprotected sex, it will show…

    if family status is what is to be maintained, why have kids… get an expensive pet!!!

    no one has the right to decide how even one single girl is to live her life, let alone dictate it out to the entire female society at large…

    Me I completely agree Crafty, in fact my next post is about this… I read your comment and thought how true it is that life, every girl’s life is precious,”no one has the right to decide how even one single girl is to live her life”… parents are not always right and they don’t and should not have the power to destroy a girl’s hopes, dreams and ambitions. What kind of parents do something like this??? I hope you like the next post, about supaari and tomato…

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  32. I read through this post in total shock. We hear of narrow-mindedness but actually seeing it play out in front of you is still hard to fathom. Hats off to you for being able to answer patiently. I would have bitten this person’s head off!!! The entire thing made my blood boil!!!

    While I would like to comment on the entire thing, there’s one point I’d like to make to this person. It’s not just women that suffer from post-traumatic stress (his example of the woman having to be ‘institutionalised’ after being at fault for an accident). Research and experience shows that men too suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder. Men and women present for therapy for the same and if the ratio of men is less, it’s purely because of stigma attached to seeking therapy than them not suffering from PTSD.

    Me – Thanks Psych Babbler, and you are just the right person to say this.

    Like

  33. It is hard changing orthodox notions deep rooted in the minds of some people. There are still people who think like this, but i guess it has improved a lot. In my family and my parents family, both partners have tried to share their work and family roles throughout. I see a lot of such families around.

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  34. I just came here to thank you for what you did ! Please, I dont have anything else to say !! 😀 😀 😀 😀 You and the rest have said enough !! Nooo…noooooooo…I really dont have anything other than whats written up there and I support all your view points ! Can I leave atleast now ? 😉

    Me – Nobody can leave without choosing between tomatoes or roses! Take your pick!

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  35. i am amazed that you could keep calm and write this post IHM! i am just too angry to say anything! gah!!!!!

    Me – Only because I feel this is not a one odd case.

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  36. This is a topic which is very close to my heart, IHM. I remember many of my family members who discoraged my father when I decided to do my CA. Their advice was to get me married off and then let ‘them’ decide whatever they want. I cannot thank my parents enough when they stood my in whatever I did including marrying a person of my choice.
    Their reasoning was exactly the same – get them married at a pliable age. Don’t let them be independent before hand, otherwise it will be very difficult for them to adjust. I guess this thinking emanated from an era where there were lots of kids in each family and even one daughter coming back home from her husbands would have been a scocial stigma which was unthinkable. What ires me most is the so called educated people talking like this.

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  37. I wonder why was this topic debatable?

    In a country where molestations became debatable (Mangalore), imagine what we can do 😦

    But seeing that you don’t think this topic is debatable gives hope for a better tomorrow.

    Like

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