Of Love, Lust and Respect

Miss B – The stronger sex is actually the weaker sex because of it’s weakness for the weaker sex.

Once we walked into a couple discussing or rather fighting over some interesting theories that the man had.

1. Whether it was possible for a man to love and respect the same woman. This man felt love (he meant lust I guess) and respect did not go together.

2. He insisted respect was higher than love, and a man must marry a woman only if he respects her, and he claimed he respected his wife. (And hence if he flirted with or was attracted to other women, she should not get hyper, you see, he could never respect them.)

3. He said women should be pure and worthy of worship. And they should have a clean image. Men had the luxury of being bad, wicked, sinful and hence also of being forgiven. (Very smart I thought.)

4. He explained that men were weak, and they can not ‘resist’ the temptation of bad women, although they can never respect these ‘bad‘ women.
(And we all know how respectable that makes such men! )

I still fume when I remember.
I wanted to ask if he wondered whether his wife respected him or loved him? I doubt if it mattered to him. He could afford to not care for her respect or love. And frankly I don’t think he cared even a bit for her.

Dev D, the character, reminded me of that guy. And hats off to any director for discussing this and many other things that still confuse some Indian men!

(I have lots more to say about Dev D – in the next post. )

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43 thoughts on “Of Love, Lust and Respect

  1. Very interesting topic touched upon and all the more interesting discussion here.

    Frankly speaking, physical relation and love are the bi-products of each other. I can’t imagine having sex with a person whom i don’t love.

    But the question is that whom,(or whom all) do i love ??

    They say that a man is very soft when he is hard. So do i feign love in pursuit of sensual pleasure? Does my love flow away in those few drops of lust ?

    If i love her, i will like to see her happy so will never do something which will offend her.

    But then we are human beings and hence not infallible. We do fall prey to our weaknesses. But then will i also accept her falling to her weakness sometime ?

    Yes, if i love her, i will walk that ardous path with her, only to take her out of that ’cause she walked with me when i had fallen.

    We wrongly say that one falls in love. Rather one rises in love but falls in lust.

    I think i will have to write a post on that.

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  2. I remember being told by a man once that he finds his wife to be God-like. And that is what he expects her to remain throughout her life. I was confused, and he was ‘kind’ enough to let me know the reason – she ‘forgave’ him for being rude and abusive at times(he could not control his temper), flirt with other women(oh.. that is harmless, isn’t it), had a physical relationship with another woman(now for that, he had to work really hard to invoke the benevolence of the Goddess!)… and after every such incident, expected her to start afresh…
    He worships her….
    She is lucky to have a husband like him….

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  3. @Puja Thakur I think these humble bhakt must be very common …

    Aren’t they lucky to be married to such helpless goddesses?
    What these men don’t realise is how much luckier they would have been if they had married women they loved, lusted for and respected? (Obviously not perfect relationships but much better than this ridiculous disbalance they exist with!)

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  4. Well,this world is such!!Tho idealisations dun rly allow al des,these are hard facts.But then,this is pertaining to a few of the indian men folk who think in these lines for I ges ppl now understand on the promotion of equality and similar features..

    Good one IHM.. 🙂 ur a movie freak rite??God,I cant even make it to one tanks to CA.. 😦

    Nikhil

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  5. In the 60's & 70's the women in america got their liberation…

    maybe this is the start in india… and this wont be gained without some pain…

    Sooner than later, more and more males will have to acknowledge that equal rites actually mean equal rites…

    If males have certain rights, the females must have the same certain rights !!!!

    I think that education will have to play a major part in this… films etc are slowly evolving… havent seen Dev D, guess need to catch it…

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  6. i strongly feel that you cant love a women without respecting her…its just not possible..
    but alas, world is full of men who think otherwise and more sadly there are enuff women who take that shit..

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  7. did someone tell, men are biologically polygamous..but i can tell , mentally most are..

    i am reminded of this convesration with my wife last year..my wife asked me – you love me….yes i love you…. next ques..if someone falls for you , what will be your reaction…

    for a permanent relationship ..hmm no…but if it is for a one night stand, it completely depends upon the circumstances and mood i am in , at that time…

    She asked…when we completely remove any other man from our life, why you people could not do that…

    no answer…
    i replied, may be i should love you more than ever for that…hmm

    as far as resepct – is this an indianness? why we are not able to accept that anyhuman being should respect other human being irrespective of class, creed etc etc…

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  8. by the way , the conversation you have quoted was very silly…though the topic was worthwhile…dont waste your time, with silly people s opinion…

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  9. hey, got here from churningthewordmill…
    i pity the wife, sounds like bad husband material. what’s worse, he’s gonna be poor father material too 😦
    isn’t love an expression of respect? so, it might be safe to say that he just respects his mother, and definitely (god forbid) doesn’t love her!! he obviously has some twisted definitions of love!!
    sheesh. unfortunately, i know of women who condemn this behaviour, but forgive their own boyfriends by saying, “oh no, he’s just misunderstood. he really loves me!” and then marry them! 😐

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  10. Wow, these are some good excuses for men when they are caught 🙂 he he…

    But I guess, its totally irrelevant, pointless and idiotic. What do you even respond to that.

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  11. I fail to understand that how can love and respect be talked abt differently???

    this is just another excuse created my men to cheat and think that they are better

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  12. ” And hence if he flirted with or was attracted to other women, she should not get hyper, you see, he could never respect them.)”

    OK, that’s just bull crap! (Excuse me for the language.)
    How can anyone be ingrained with such rubbish thoughts?!!
    ugh… we live in a very hypocritical world. Would he have reacted in a similar manner, if his wife dished out the same illogic?!!

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  13. @Nihil – I know most people don’t think like this, but these guys aren’t unheard of, do read the first comment!

    And lol Nikhil, actually I only started watching movies (not many, very few) after reading blog reviews, believe it or not 🙂

    And found some unexpected surprises … 🙂

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  14. @Hitchwriter Dev D is much more than this … and some of the points are very subtle. But watch it … would like to hear what guys think of a movie like this. Do watch and do write a review!

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  15. Oh yeah, then there is this another breed of men who believe that it is the “biological” need of men to sleep around and hence it is out of his control!

    Women on the other hand, care about love and then sex, hence women who aren’t “chaste” are not to be forgiven…

    Such men are the worst kind of hypocrites and what is worse is that so many women have internalised such thinking! *sigh* I hope this changes soon!

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  16. @Iya Absolutely. It is impossible to separate love from respect. If you love respect has to be there.

    But here respect is being used like a carrot cum a sword dangling on her head. What makes him even imagine that his respect is worth her life and happiness?

    She could see through it that is why they were fighting, she is in a comparatively better position now, though they ate still together, at least she tells him to stop giving her this nonsense.

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  17. Sunder Biologically women are no different from men,and we hear of enough such cases despite social conditioning to know this to be true.

    It’s not true that all women are built biologically to love only one man, any more than all men are built to love only one woman. Mentally, emotionally or physically.

    So there are many committed men and there are many committed women then there are polygamous men and there are polygamous women.

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  18. (And hence if he flirted with or was attracted to other women, she should not get hyper, you see, he could never respect them.) If his wife flirts and gets attracted to other men,then he respects and loves her?? No he leaves her or says she is a bad women,will the wife says you r bad man??

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  19. Remeber that one that one hears everywhere in India given as a dumb example..?
    Something about different criterias for girlfriends and a different one for a wife?

    We are a nation full of hypocrites!and of the first order too!

    thsi is all BS!respect ?Crap i say!
    Respect is when a guy knows when I hurt,knows what hurts me …and hurts with me…all these are just excuses to hide/camouflage the real nature of such idiots!
    and what kind of dysfunctional families do they come from?
    come to think of it most Indian families are dysfucntional

    yet to see Dev D or Dilli6..have to now..

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  20. Why it has to be that men should be treated in a wrong way. If the muslims are doing its okay they are minority the same principle seems to be applied here, if the little brother does its ok but you are elder y are u doing this kind of stuff.

    if you want the women and men to considered equal stop giving un-necceary priority to women. Both are same and both can be right and wrong.. its not that men are born haramis and women saints

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  21. Oh god how did you even talk to that man with a straight face. I got so angry when I read this –
    “He explained that men were weak, and they can not ‘resist’ the temptation of bad women, although they can never respect these ‘bad’ women.”
    Yeah right men are weak and bad women tempt them into foolish things……right!
    For me, respect and love go hand in hand.

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  22. i havent seen dev d so i dont know if the two characters are similar… but i do know that this man u are refering to is kinda strange ! at least his thinking is strange! i thot love and respect go hand in hand.

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  23. Ya, I know this 3rd and 4th point from my personal experience. he he 🙂

    “He said women should be pure and worthy of worship. And they should have a clean image”

    although they can never respect these ‘bad’ women.

    I think, I grew up watching movies like that. heroine would always be this nice Sati-Savitri gal, which I believe, even led me to believe that only a salwar-clad shy woman is who I want (way back in upper school I guess) to be with,
    But that Feeling did not last long, and it was something taught by the outside world. The reality is much different, all those Sati-Savitri gals might not be so sati-savitri from inside, as in, you might end up with a cunning one, if you are just focusing on how she is trying to portray herself on the outside.

    Whereas a Bad women need not actually be bad as they are the ones who are as you see them, They are not trying to hide or portray anything of themselves.

    But yeah,once you are matured enough, you know the difference between good and the bad and you stop judging people on their dress code or blah blah.

    About the respect thing, it reminds me of your post where you said something like “we will respect you, but conditions apply”.

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  24. “I wanted to ask if he wondered whether his wife respected him or loved him? I doubt if it mattered to him.”

    Ohh IHM, but it does! It matters so much, that he doesnt ask – he`s scared to! You never know what the ‘Goddess’ might say to him! 🙂
    And what`s with this ‘bad woman’ and ‘good woman’ branding? Again, moral policing at work. Its a whole load of crap and it makes me so terribly angry. I`m wondering how you reacted to this guy(read shithead!)..

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  25. i have to see Dev D now…. 🙂 and this post has comletely confused me… 🙂 I get confused when I read so many terms and definitions… 🙂
    LOL
    lust and respect… dont know what to say 🙂

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  26. It’s outrageous, isn’t it! And how easily and simply they explain it away. “I Can’t help being bad, I’m genetically wired to be that way…just as you’re wired to be sweet and forgiving!” Ugh! Makes my skin crawl!

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  27. This reminds me of the post you had written about the Manusmriti. Looks like he is following the “scriptures” to the T!

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  28. Dr.Emerson, the Psychologist says that Man’s basic need is respect and a woman’s basic needs is love, relationship goes well if they keep this in mind. He says that bible says this.
    How convenient I say! I will treat you like a door mat but will love you and you have to respect me by offering me to wipe my feet with you. Why? Why can’t a simple fact be brought home that no one needs love if it doesn’t come wrapped in respect. I was reading the above said book and by looking at the cover my husband asked “What is that crap you are reading?” Another way of controlling woman, of making them feel they are obligated to give respect but not to get it. And again, Mother in laws join the band wagon, aakhir wo aadmi hai!! It is just absolutely disgusting.

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  29. Funny to watch how men have justification for anything they do..I am sick of this ‘Men are polygamous by nature ‘ **rolls eyes***

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  30. actually if you notice! the animal kingdom, the male species is supposed to attract the female one with all their smartness, courage and wooing abilities! And the woman is free to ‘date’ as many men as she choses…Wonder what happened to us Homo Sapiens 😉

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  31. @Kislay 🙂

    @RV what is worse is that so many women have internalised such thinking Worst and the saddest.

    @Nimmy Nobody in their heart believes such logic, everybody knows it is all just a way to justify some wrongs.

    @Sandhya Anybody can say anything, for everybody else, and those who want to use that theory will promptly quote such people. Just ask them why are women complaining if it all so normal? We should tell them it is natural for a woman to find the best DNA for her kids, the way Kunti did 🙂

    @Aneri Maasi – Manusmriti was written by the biggest MCP of all.

    @Mamma mia! Me a mamma? This is why I don’t approve of women being made into devis, there is an ulterior motive … in such dehumanization.

    @Varun Yes, me too!

    @Ordinary Guy, this post is about a man who Dev D reminded me of. Do watch the movie 🙂

    @Piper I wish I could say I gave him back, but I merely and very politely asked him some questions (E.g. Why not you be the devta and let her be the witch he he he? ), and later told his wife again indirectly that I understood why she was angry … she is no fool, but she can’t leave him him either, though he does need to be kicked out of her life.

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  32. @Pixie ‘Would he have reacted in a similar manner, if his wife dished out the same illogic?!!’ is a good question!

    @DeeplyDip We are no different except in social conditioning. And respect is a regular bribe given in return of total submission. This biologically made different is utter nonsense.
    He is trying to say that these men who want to flirt, are flirting with other men ? If they are flirting (etc.) with women, then how are women biologically different?

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  33. @Mr Balvinder Singh I would love to read a post on this by you!

    @Varunavi “If his wife flirts and gets attracted to other men,then he respects and loves her??” He should answer this!

    @Reema Yes, I did .. not as entertainment, more as the guts the director showed in making a movie like this 🙂

    @Mandira I agree 🙂
    @Rakesh But this is how you respond to that … you did that 🙂

    @Chikki Brilliantly explained! You can make that post a comment .. it should be read by more people.

    @Shilpa ‘For me, respect and love go hand in hand.’ I agree 🙂

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  34. I remember once a classmate of mine told me that all the boys in my class repected girls who do not flirt and maintain dignity , but they enjoy flirting with the ones who do. But they would never marry those kinds

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  35. While living around with so many people ,each having different rigidity on this word”Love”,I wonder still how this system works. The emotions have also become like “give and take things” like exchangeable items.This four letter word is not just a word to spill ,its’ a revolutionizing touch that can change whole of the system around us.I think its level is above all kind of adoration that we can have for the people.We can respect all of the human race if not for the human himself/herself (cause he/she can be a dirty guy for some reasons right or wrong I am not coming across),but still for his limited rights.But we can’t love or even like every kind of person.Here people need to understand this is not the word to play with.Love means intrinsic respects for all kind of rights that anyone can have but vice versa cannot be just there for all cases. By saying this I never meant love seems to inherit ingredient of lust in itself and by that its having a greater amplitude than respect.But I have one simple thing in mind you can respect zillion kinds of people and can get respect from millions ,but if you love million kinds of people than you come across one bleeding fact that noone loves you.I am so much confused with the use of these words , that perhaps I have written trash here.But I can’t turn my back to the fact that this is not a word now what “Maznu had meant for his Laila”.
    Will reply more if it clears in my mind.

    If I have offended anyone ,I am extremely sorry.

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  36. Pingback: What do you understand by ‘unconditional love’? | The Life and Times of an Indian Homemaker

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