So what do our children owe us?

This is a part of a longer discussion.

IHM: We Indians go out of our way to prevent marriages where a man and a woman have chosen each other… (so called, ‘Love marriages’).

Somebody-I-do-not-agree-with says

‘In India man and woman are considered sub set of family, which is in turn considered a sub set of community. Individuals who want to opt out of being such subset of subset should eschew related benefits too.

Community living is a responsibility; while it provides enormous advantages to its members through strength of relationship, it also requires the members to reciprocate, to foster the customs of the community and to strengthen it.

….

If these two ‘willing people’ are swayambhus, i.e., people who took birth on their own and grew up by themselves, let them do whatever they want.
But if they have been brought up by a community, they owe something to that community, they owe not to put their selfish interest above reasonable community practices.” (click for an example of one such reasonable community practice)

IHM :

I have some questions here,

1. Are the members free to opt out if they eschew the related benefits?

2. Do all members benefit or only those who are in positions of power? I fear some family politics and financial status might decide who is in power.

3. Who decides if the practices are reasonable? Those who benefit from the practices, or those who must sacrifice?

I know a lot of Indians believe this. What do you think? What do the children owe to their parents?

Mommy Guilt: A Western Influence.

Our grandmothers didn’t suffer from Mommy Guilt. These liberal ideas about children’s rights and child psychology are not a part of our ancient history.

Our grand dads had no such complexes either. In my dad’s time it was perfectly normal to beat children and lock them up in dark rooms without dinner.  Mothers beat them too, sometimes simply because they needed to vent.

Parenting was about sacrifices then – give birth, keep nine months in the womb, feed mother’s milk, plan their future, always want the best for them.

In return they wanted only that you do as you were told.

The guilt belonged to the child not the parents.

Ours is the land of Sravan Kumar. And Dashratha. And Ram who exiled his unborn twins.  Not to mention Bhishma, who swore celibacy to repay his father’s sacrifices.

Raja Harishchandra sold his son as a slave, a teenaged Kunti was given the responsibility of taking care of Durvasa known for his temper. No over protection in those days.

In more recent times Rani Laxmibai was married at 9, to a 45 year old King. Childhood didn’t matter then.

We sent child widows to vidhva ashrams. We gave girl children up as devdasis.

These were the norms then. Parenting was easier before Mommy-Guilt.  Even in the west.

One of my maids told me her mother had sent her away to be adopted by a couple who agreed to pay for her – but she cried so much she had to be brought back. Who felt guilty? The inconvenient child.

We haven’t changed much, but now modern ideas of child rights, control our expectations from our children. Like one hears, “If it goes on like this, we will find children calling 911 every time we raise our hands on them.”

Before Mommy-Guilt mothers left babies in cradles hanging from a tree and worked in fields, fetched water etc – if the baby cried an older sibling took care (still does). Children worked in the fields too. Babies fell in wells and ponds. (still do). Richer babies had nannies and nurse maids while mothers took care of whatever was their priority. No momma-guilt.

Then women became westernized, started earning and becoming selfish. Children started being neglected. Mothers (and fathers also) started wondering if they were doing the right thing. And thus was born, Mommy Guilt!

It isn’t such a bad thing though… read all about it here

From an Anonymous DIL, Wife and Daughter.

This post was selected by BlogAdda as one of the top posts for this week’s ‘Spicy Saturday Picks’.

I am publishing this comment and my response to it, from ‘How Important is it for a girl to get married?’ because I agree with Ramit when he says, ” IHM This topic that has been raised by Anonymous, needs a separate post in itself so other girls can relate to it too and get a few pointers to stand up. It’s high time they need to stand up… Unbelievable that India has put men on the moon and our mother in laws even after migrating to London are still living in the 15th century! Utter crap! “

Here’s the comment.

Dear IHM,

I am a 24 yr old newly wedded girl. got married 4 months ago and moved to the UK with my husband. i know this is a problem every indian DIL faces and I guess I am falling in to it too. my family is very liberal and they do not really believe in following all the customs that the entire world harps on. My inlaws on the other hand are super duper orthodox and for them every custom under the Sun is important no matter how inconvenient it is for the other person. My MIL like any son’s mother thinks that I am the luckiest girl on earth because her son decided to marry me. because her son is in the UK and he is the only one in their family to be living abroad, whereas in my family, every second person is in some part of the word other than India so to me its not a big deal at all! in fact i refused to marry this guy because he is not in India but since everyone in my family insisted that they know this guy very well and I got convinced after speaking to him a zillion times that he is genuinely good at heart.

Now my MIL has a typical characteristic trait of pointing out everything. Even if you miss a small safety pin that was supposed to be given to her or her daughter from my parents’ side, she does not waste a single moment in pointing it out and making it obvious that she is unhappy because the “custom” has been broken. Her daughter is the world to her. I am the world to my parents too but she is a little weird. During the entire wedding, she was not anywhere near us. Kept insisting my SIL stays with us all the time coz she is the daughter of the house. And made sure my SIL and her husband were served everything properly. She does not care if anyone else is not properly taken care of, but with her daughter no chance! So much that once they had their invitations ready, they sent it to my SIL first got her approval and then bothered to send it to my husband coz his approval was not necessarily important though he was the groom.

Somehow, the wedding went on very well with the help and support of a lot of family and friends. Now when I was moving to the UK, I’d left all my jewelry, silver and gifts at my parents’ place. Somehow I was not very comfortable leaving them with my inlaws coz my MIL tries to find fault with everything she sees. In some piece she will think the design is not good or she will say that we should never buy gold at a jewelry shop but make sure we get it made by a goldsmith etc etc. So since I would not be around, I did not want my mom to listen to all her nagging everytime she met my inlaws. Even though my mom asked my MIL if she wants her to get all the gifts and all and leave it here. I did not want her to ask about the gold though.

My question # 1:

Is it not my choice about what I want to do with my things? Do I have to seek my MIL’s permission for everything I do to “my” stuff? Each and every piece of that jewelry has been bought by my parents. None of it is what my inlaws gave me. The stuff they gave me is with me here. But do I have to take her permission before deciding what I want to keep with me and what I don’t? My parents will definitely not need my jewelry. They have enof of their own.

Now coming to it, she has spoken to a common friend of my family and his family recently. She has very conveniently told him that she has no idea what I have done with all the silver items (including 2 sets of thali and glass gifted by my parents) I had and all my jewelry. She tried to convey that she thinks I have given even the thalis and all to my parents and they are happily living on it. The thalis and glasses are as a matter of fact with me and with her proper knowledge coz she was pissed off when I said I want to take them with me. My whole point was I did not see any sense in keeping them safe at home when we could make proper use of it everyday over here. )

Question # 2:

Is it right on her part to speak like this about me and my parents in front of a third person? Is she not kind of insulting me and my parents?

Now the more interesting part, my SIL’s husband does not have any family of his own. His parents passed away years ago and his elder brother and all are only for the sake of being there. So all that my SIL had are at her parents’ place. So she has a valid reason to leave everything with her parents. Now for everything my MIL has one excuse that since my parents dont know all these customs, she is trying to tell them the customs.

I had no intentions of having any ill feeling towards my in laws but this is making me very very sad. I wept all of yesterday and as soon as my husband came home, he realised something is wrong with me. He managed to get me spill out everything (and i am cursing myself for it), spoke to his mom, my mom and tried to convince me that his mom is only trying to tell us the customs and all. He is otherwise very understanding. he knows how his mom has a very weird character and tells me the same thing but when it comes to this particular issue, he says it was a casual talk between my MIL and that common friend and he took the liberty to call up my parents and speak to them about it. What I dont understand is if this ‘casual talk’ was a month ago, why did that man call my parents now and speak to them? I am a new DIL and so I am not supposed to question anyone. All I am supposed to do is keep quiet and see my parents being nagged every now and then because they did not some custom about a piece of haldi or a saree that was supposed to be given.

Question # 4 :

Is that all my parents are supposed to do all the time? Keep giving things to me and my husband? They do give us a lot but is there no break to it? Do they have keep giving us gifts all their life? They have already done enof for us, is it not our turn to make sure they have everything they need and care for their wellbeing (including his parents). Is a piece of jewelry and a set of clothes the only way to show they love us and care for us?

Question #5:

My parents still dont have an account of how much they might have spent for my wedding coz his parents wanted a grand ceremony because they were not taking any dowry. I’d already told my parents that I dont mind staying single all my life but I don’t want them to pay a single penny as dowry. I am beautiful, educated, had a very very good job and I am self sufficient in all ways. There is no need for someone like me to get married by giving dowry etc. My husband also was very particular that he did not want anything as dowry. So since there was no dowry in question they wanted the event to be a grand one. My parents wanted the same thing and so they made sure everything was remarkably exotic much against my wishes coz I dont see the whole point in spending so much money on something which lasts just a day or 2. Is a simple ceremony not worth enof to get married?

I am soo disappointed now that I can’t express it in words. I wanted a family where human values are more important than customs. Thankfully, to my husband all that matters is human values and feelings but I am very disappointed by his parents coz I realised that for them customs play a higher role than human values.

I wanted to spill it all out coz I am just not able to take it anymore. I am a regular reader of ur blog and all I could think of was you when my mind went completely blank.

Please help me.

From
Anonymous DIL, Wife and Daughter.

* * *

And my response.

Anonymous DIL, Wife and Daughter I was thinking maybe this should be published as a post … it’s such a typical situation!
At 24, and when you are married, you should be left alone and not suffocated with such controls!

I am amazed women achieve so much despite such cruel and horrible circumstances. Just be brave, remember that you are absolutely justified in wanting to be free of such controls, and you are NOT WRONG in expecting your parents to be treated with respect and basic decency. Malicious gossip against a DIL’s family is not something a girl can be expected to respect. And what you do with your jewelery is upto you, even if you do sell it or give it away she can only express an opinion – no matter what our conditioning tells us, it is wrong to to try to control another adult’s life. She is also trying to control her adult, and married, son’s life.

The sons grow up and are conditioned to believe that since mothers only want what is best for them, it is fine if they also want to monitor their entire lives.

This is where Joint Family and patriarchy are so wrong.

And don’t feel guilty if common sense tells you this is wrong, just because somebody is older or is a spouse’s parent, they do not automatically become right.

Expecting your parents to keep spending is wrong; discussing them with anybody, least of all mutual contacts, is not going to build bridges. Discussing you is immature and cruel, and I think if they really care for the son’s happiness, then it is essential that his wife is shown respect… your MIL does not seem to realise that no man can be really happy if his wife is treated like this. Happy wives make happy families.

Don’t feel guilty – you are right, and tell your parents to be stronger, I always say, Strong parents have happy daughters.

Don’t give in to such controlling, keep your jewelery where ever you prefer to keep it.  And quite definitely not with your MIL. Not even if it means a lot to her (Why should it mean a lot to her?). Not even if it makes her feel you love her like your mother. Not even to please your husband. Keep it pleasant but be firm. Maybe just smile and change the topic.

You could tell your mom in law or husband that even if this is done in every next house, you do not like such indulgences in petty gossiping. Convey that you may find it difficult to show respect to  your mom in law unless she (and he also) show the same respect to your parents.

No harmony is possible unless their is justice. Bitterness and oppression can not bring peace. Be tactful, remain polite and respectful, keep your cool …. but do not accept such treatment.

I wish you (or any human) didn’t have to go through this, but since you have to …

Also ask your husband to remember you also have the same feelings, how would he like to be treated EXACTLY the same way by your parents? If parents love their children, shouldn’t they be nice to their spouse too…?

He cannot keep speaking to his mom on your behalf – she will start calling him a JKG. he just has to very clearly let her see that he will not allow his family to treat his wife shabbily, when a husband stands by his wife, nobody from his family bothers her.

Take a look at this post,

No jeans for an Indian Daughter in law.

Two more posts by Unmana you may like to read,

In-Law Advice: What Husbands Should Do

In-Law Advice: What Wives Should Do

***

Response continued,

@Anonymous DIL, Wife and Daughter, Of course human values are more important than any customs … in fact the only purpose of all customs is to bring us together and make us happy, ‘customs’ by themselves are of no other value, don’t get bogged by all these thing that you forget that these are the best years of your life, remind your husband also.

I fear sometimes elders use customs to show they know more or know better … I feel bad for them, maybe they feel you know more in some other ways so at least here they can show some superiority .

Newer customs will be brought in by newer generation … we  will  change with times, so will the customs.
You will be fine, be brave … hugs, God bless, IHM

Who defines the ‘limits’ of your freedom?

Maqbool Fida Hussain might give up Indian citizenship.

The Sangh Parivar insists that Hussain has to apologize if he wants to return home. Why? Because “every freedom in democracy has a limit..”

They don’t mean everybody’s freedom though.

A chosen few in India seem to have unlimited freedom to reinterpret religion (including yours and mine), unlimited freedom to stop normal life with threats of violence, unlimited freedom to get away with violence, and until recently , unlimited freedom to demand apologies.

A chosen few must define these limits for the rest of the us.

Muthalik (now pink black faced), Meeta Jamal in Kanpur University, some students in Aligarh Muslim University , the RSS, and the Sanskrati Bachao Sangh in MP, and now (updated to add) rioters in Karnataka seem to believe they are amongst the chosen few.

Here are the kind of limits our street-censor-boards would approve of. This is more dangerous than even a ban on jeans or lingerie display because it subtly undoes a lot of hard work that time, technology and reformers have done.

Does this article disapprove of single parents, working mothers, birth control, premarital sex for girls (only girls), individual rights for girls, and equal rights for girls?

[Click to read the article.]

“Today girls are upfront in demanding their rights.Nothing can come in their way.Comments Dr Shayama Chona,an educationist for 44 years,They expect society to respect their equality with boys.They are bright,bold,beautiful,and want to drink,smoke,go for late night parties,but dont know how to handle it when trouble arises.”

Muthalik will love this comment. And I wish I could believe the first two lines.

Does the ‘trouble arise’ because they expect society to respect their ‘equality with boys’?

Those who demand equality also drink, smoke and stay out all night?

Those who get into ‘trouble’ are those who drink, smoke and demand equality?

How is drinking and smoking related to freedom, equality, or being bold, bright and beautiful? In fact smoking is bad for skin, and alcohol has calories that go against the average idea of beauty  today. Also does this mean boys and girls  who do not smoke or drink  do not think they are equal citizens?

Too much emphasis on individual rights can come in the way of nurturing good relationships.

How? Can somebody explain please?

Mostly those who suppress individual rights for the (what they consider) ‘welfare of society’ are talking about their personal ideas of what is good for the society (e.g. no gay rights, no lingerie display, no inter-religious marriages). There is a risk of their ideas being wrong  or biased- so personal choices are  best left to each equally intelligent  individual.

Individual rights ensure that a few individuals do not force an entire society to confirm to their ideas of right or wrong.

Says senior psychiatrist Dr Rajiv Anand, I,me,myself and to hell with others! This attitude is leading to emotional instability among girls.

If women do not suppress their dreams and desires it does not mean  they have an  ‘I,me,myself and to hell with others!’ attitude.

Its not ‘emotionally unstable’ to want to grow, dream, have ambitions and hopes for oneself.

This one seems to be an  idea straight out of a Bollywood movie.

Add to this,the easy access to illegal substances,birth control methods,etc,which make these female brats believe they know it all.”

Illegal substances and birth control methods cannot be put in the same bracket. Birth Control is not an illegal substance. Birth Control ensures young girls do not have to go through what this teenager in Faridabad went through. (Click to read).

Access to ‘illegal substances’ is equally harmful for all genders and a lot more awareness and respect for one’s body and health is needed to discourage substance abuse.

Some people (women and men) are more prone to addiction than others – they need counselling, support and rehabilitation.

This kind of biased moralising  is harmful because it might make a young girl  suspect substance abuse can be compared to sex and that might make illegal substances look fine to them.

Those who object to premarital sex are rarely (never) thinking of the girls. Their only concern is their rigid idea of morality for women.

Valentine’s Day Difficulties ;)

This 13^th Feb, while standing in a long queue at Archie’s I couldn’t resist grinning at a teenager who wished (aloud) she had brought her mother for gift shopping.

Her dad looked lost and helpless, but I clearly heard him comment on the IQ level of the one the gift was being bought for

My Daughter whispered she was glad she didn’t bring her dad with her because she was sure he was not above making such comments.

Another mother ahead of me in the queue, moaned, “Valentine’s day nahi hua, kyaa ho gaya!” (It’s Valentine’s Day or what is it!). I would have sympathised if she didn’t then turn to look adoringly at the two cute looking causes of her sighing and cribbing.

And then there’s this news that some parents have spies to keep an eye on their adolescent children on Valentine’s Day.

Dheeyaan dee maa rani, bhudhaapey bharey paani

Women in Punjab are warned, “Dheeyaan dee maa rani, bhudhaapey bharey paani”, meaning, ‘a mother who has girl children lives like a queen when the girls are young, but in her old age she has to fetch water from the well’.

This sums up our attitude towards girl children in India.

How does a mother who has daughters live like a queen?

Many Indian parents believe that their little girls must prepare for the hardships that await them in their marital home. Illogical as it sounds, this is taken very seriously. I remember my mother arguing against this. She asked a well meaning ( ) aunt if she should also train her daughters to live without running water and electricity, because who knew what hardships future held for them.

Ever heard of self fulfilling prophecies? Daughters are literally conditioned to accept a life with endless ‘hardships’ and to live without complaining or fighting back. Neha Chhikara was one such daughter.

So depending on the parents’ whims, girl-children are trained to perfection in the art of washing clothes, running errands, doing the dishes, cleaning, cooking, (many girls are cooking for an entire family at ten) and taking care of younger siblings. This makes life easier for the mother, and so she is said to live like a queen. Hence, ‘Dheeyaan dee maa rani’.

This also means that often girls are either not sent to school or they must make sure they finish the chores at home first.

If the mother has no sons she must accept her fate – no sons, no support in old age. She must do everything her daughters were doing till they got married – including, if required fetch water from the well, hence, “Budhaape bharey pani”.

When my dad was admitted in ICU a visitor noticed us walking over to the hospital cafeteria for sandwiches, and asked, “You have a daughter, she should have cooked and packed something from home!” She did not think I should have cooked. No other family member was expected to have cooked either. And definitely no male member need have worried about our meals.

We have a very clear hierarchy in matters of house hold chores. And we have convenient logic to justify employing young daughters in endless, thankless, physically exhausting and time consuming house hold chores. When we talk of tough competition in academics we are not considering how much tougher it must be for girls who have this added responsibility. Why not everybody pitch-in and do their fair share? This post, on NGI, speaks about the same attitude.

An elderly relative recalls how their five brothers held ‘parantha eating contests‘, while the sisters, (who obviously could only eat when others had finished eating) sweated in the sweltering hot summer kitchen. If the sisters protested, it became a means to annoy and tease them. Mothers looked on indulgently, proud of how well the boys ate.

One hears things like, “You may become an engineer or doctor or a big-shot at work, but every woman has to cook and clean…” so the parents train them from childhood.

Once I went to study with a friend, we were in the middle of some discussion when her younger brother reached home, threw his cricket bat on the carpet and demanded ‘nimboo-paani’. She immediately dropped the books and went into the kitchen. I asked her if her brother couldn’t make nimboo-paani (he seemed fine) for himself. She looked uncomfortable. Her mother had once slapped her because a boy, a class mate, came to drop her home after an extra class in school. Later she had got another slap when she asked what she did wrong.

The same mother now calls her to complain about how the spoiled son is indifferent to her. She was a ‘queen’ when this scholar of a daughter was young, but now she has to ‘budhape bharey paani’ because her daughter in law was not raised to prepare for hardships and has moved to her own house.

I find it difficult to believe that mothers who make their daughters learn house hold chores as a favour, mean well. If it was an unselfish gesture won’t they extend the same favour to the sons? Why raise some family members like life-long princes and others like ‘paraya dhan’?

Read another post about the same attitude by Apu here. Indyeah writes about the missing girl child here.

Edited to add on 25th – Monika wrote about her experience as a daughter of a three ‘dheeyan dee maa’ here.

And Shail’s tells in 55 words, the story of the girls who are allowed to be born.

Can dowry ensure happiness and security for a girl?

Wealthy parents of an educated daughter thought they could ‘buy’ her respect in her marital home.

The boy’s family complained about the gifts at the engagement. They spoke of better ‘offers’ for the boy. The girl’s parents, fearing a broken engagement, agreed to pay more. The tantrums and complaints continued. They continued to comply. How strong and secure did such compliance make the daughter feel?

Her parents conveyed:

# Her parents were helpless. The groom’s parents were all powerful.

# There was no life after a broken engagement.

# A girl must get married. A girl must get married by a certain age. And then she must stay married.

These parents didn’t see what was so obvious. There was every indication that this family was more interested in dowry than in their daughter. The girl went through four years of hell, had a child and tolerated an extra marital affair. Now the husband wants a divorce and she is fighting him in court. She fears the stigma of divorce would affect their daughter’s future.

Her parents’ fears laid the foundation for this hell. Meeting dowry demands reveals a desperation to see a daughter get married and stay married. This can and did make the groom’s family feel they could ‘dictate terms’.

Another beautiful, intelligent and educated girl’s parents seem to feel they could not afford a not-abusive groom.  She was married, with all their savings as dowry, to a man without a regular job. Again there were indications of greed and verbal abuse after the engagement, but the parents ignored them all. She is raised to believe she is better off than many girls who are married to worse guys.

Her parents are proud of their conservative ‘values’ (sanskar) which forbade this daughter from interacting with men lest someone outside their community ‘ruins her life’. Her mostly unemployed husband finds fault with everything she does and calls her a ‘fool’. He thinks he has a right to control what she wears, when she wakes up, if and what jobs she picks up, what Television serials she watches and when and how often she meets her family.

Waiting till they found a suitable boy who did not demand a dowry, or self reliance for the girl were not seen as options here.

Another girl was married with a good dowry to a man who needed money to get his sisters married. The girl did not fit the standard Indian idea of beauty. Her parents wanted to see her ‘settled’ and thought it wouldn’t be possible without a dowry. The boy’s family thought he sacrificed his happiness for his sisters. The boy resented the girl and although he needed the dowry she brought, he felt exploited by her wealthier parents (but not by his own parents).

Since the girl’s personality, her wit and intelligence were not taken into account in these ‘negotiations’, what happiness could that dowry find her in this union?

Sometimes the groom’s family magnanimously agrees to accept a girl with just a rupee (as a token, in lieu of dowry). But this would mean the dowry is a boy’s right and a marriage without dowry is a favour to the girl. What does such a marriage or such a ‘favour’ do to a bride’s confidence? Isn’t there a chance that she might be expected to be grateful?

I know of one father who refused to honour a bad custom by giving even that rupee as token. The daughter felt pride not shame or gratitude for marrying  without a dowry. She was raised to believe she deserved happiness, success and all good things in life and must strive for them. The couple live happily today.

When a girl’s family gives dowry they are clearly saying that the groom is doing their daughter a favour. They also start a vicious cycle of demand and compliance, and leave themselves open to extortion – subtle or direct. Possibly former air hostess Neha Chhikara’s parents made this mistake when they gave 15 lakhs and then again 10 lakhs in cash to their son in law. The 23 year old took her own life on the first of January.[Link]

I agree with Editor, Techgoss, “Someone should start a campaign telling women that if their hubby/hubby’s family wants dowry they are walking into such life threatening situations.”

It is a myth that dowry is unavoidable. The fact is those girls who put their foot down find themselves in happier situations. A confident girl who knows she is worthy of being loved for herself would not see dowry as an option. In the end the world (and her spouse and his family) sees a girl the way she see herself.

A girl who is treated like a burden at home is more likely to accept abuse by her in laws or watch her parents fulfil dowry demands. [Read more here.]

Indyeah tweeted me the link to this inspiring article about girls who dared to throw out greedy families demanding dowry at the last moment.

This howlarious video I found on Alankrita’s blog also talks about ‘totally insufficient dowry’.

Of suparis and tomatoes.

Supreme court has made it clear that a girl above 18 can marry or live with anyone of her choice.

India needs such reminders because although parents know of custodial deaths and custodial rapes they still get the police to arrest their adult and married sons, daughters and  their spouses. Pregnant girls or mothers with small children are also brought in court for marrying their husbands.

The confidence of these parents is unbelievable, they are convinced that they know better best.

Or perhaps there is no love or confidence involved? The child is seen as a ‘possession’. That is why sons are seen as assets and daughters as liabilities.

Since daughters are not an asset, they are more likely to get killed. A mother and grandmother in Chennai, killed twin girl babies by suffocating one and  slitting the throat of the other. No political groups made this an issue. I only receive links to self righteous websites worrying about protecting adult citizens (only girls) from  inter-religious marriages.

Apart from the fact that these attempts encroach on an adult citizen’s legal rights, which is reason enough to condemn them, these groups change their tune from case to case. It makes no difference which community, because when it comes to a girl’s right to choose a life partner – the view is no different.

One more thing ‘traditional’ thinking has in common across communities in India is that it is assumed that a girl is not old or matured enough to choose a life partner but is matured enough to be married off to a man several years older and to raise future citizens. She cannot consent to having sex (is often a minor when married), but again she is old enough to have and to raise children.

Amina from Kashmir married Rajneesh Sharma on Aug 21. Her father filed a report with the police saying his 17-year-old (27-year-old, it seems from Aanchal’s account) daughter was missing. Srinagar police arrested her husband, he  was brought to Ram Munshi Bagh police station, where (according to a probe) he hanged himself with a pheran. [Read details here.]

Earlier this year, Fiaz Ahmed Ahanger ‘s Hindu wife  – ‘with an infant in her lap, stood before the Bench, braved questions and was unflappable in her resolve to live with her husband. But, there was an urgent plea from her to save her husband from harassment at the hands of the police and threats from her parents and brothers who did not agree to the inter-religious marriage.’  [Details here.]

I also blogged about how a teenager was harassed and molested for meeting a boy from another community by a political group, the girl was so traumatized that she hanged herself.  She was not yet sixteen.

I read this news yesterday, and then reached the bottom of the page and what do I  see?  Take a look.

What does this mean?  I chose to throw a tomato, maybe you’d like to give a rose?

With Nimmy’s permission…

There are many Indias in one India.

That some parents feel too much education might harm their daughter, would be difficult to understand for those parents who feel girls must be self reliant.

Nimmy and ‘A’ had a discussion on her blog, I couldn’t resist requesting Nimmy to let me answer some of A’s questions…

A: Girls should be married off by the age of 18-19…

Me: Not everybody is matured enough to get married at 18/19.

A: Early? Not at all…Bcoz by 20+, they will start making their own choices and will have own opinions

Me: Even when families are there to support, they need their own judgement to be good wives, mothers, daughters, and daughters in laws. Smart girls make better mothers. Children need to be guided by well educated, informed, confident mothers, and education gives all this.

A: So? So, parents should marry off girls before they start having firm opinions and start making decisions for them

Me: And god forbid if they ever need to support their families how would girls who can’t make choices or have opinions do that?

Will any husband not be happy to have a ‘partner’ instead of a ‘ward’? Someone who is a friend and a companion, not another child to look after?

Think Shahrukh Khan and Gauri. Rajeev Gandhi and Sonia Gandhi. Obama and Michelle…. happy couples, and compare them to families where women cannot think independently.

A: Ha, what is the need for girls to have so much education. The role of women in a society to make a good family and bring up kids in a good way.

Me: Educated, intelligent, strong mothers (parents) are a strong foundation that every society needs. Children pick a lot from mothers, their values, their attitudes, and if mothers are educated - she’s a great support for the entire family.

A: All this ‘men-women equality and stuff is bullshit. Women cannot be equal to men.

Me: Happy members in a society make a happy society. Equality simply means if one member is suffering it is as bad as any other member suffering. A child, a woman, a man, an old woman – each one’s happiness is valuable to the society. Each deserves respect and consideration.

A: Let me tell you an e.g. Last day, there was an accident nearby, when a lady bumped into a sccooter-wala and he died..The lady was admitted to mental hospital for weeks..Have you ever heard of a man being mentally unstable just because he met with an accident? …you women are silly and emotionally weak, and let me remind you, they are physically weak since ages…

Me: Men and women both are needed in the society. Both are equally valuable. We cannot do without either. Children and senior-citizens also. If one is weak then they should be given extra support.

About mental stability I only know a large number of women commit suicide in all those societies where women are repressed. Men tend to react the same way when fired, during stock market crashes and during recession etc. Some other men start drinking, some become violent. Both need support.

A: Ok, let me tell you something. What if I sent my daughter to study medicine? Obviously, by the time she passes out, she will be 24 yrs and so, and she will not accept proposals from any men on a lower grade than doctors themselves.

Me: If a girl is a doctor and marries an engineer/MBA etc who does not earn as much as her, but is intelligent and well settled, there is no harm in such a marriage. Many men marry women more qualified and earning more than they are, and leading happy lives. Having a compatible partner does not mean they must earn more/less.

We want the best for our children; we must open our minds to newer better ideas, if it can give them better lives.

There was a time when any education for girls was considered unnecessary; some of our elders made the bold move of educating their daughters, now it’s our turn to do the same. We must evolve.

A: Its ok with her, but not for me, as I have find Crores of money for her dowry.

Me: Look out for boys who don’t ask dowry. You will be surprised to find many such families, who just want a compatible match. In our family we never give or take dowry, and I know many other such families. The biggest blessing of a marriage without dowry is you are sure the boy really likes the girl; he isn’t marrying her for money. There are also no fears of harassment for dowry.  Such families will also respect you and your daughter more than the usual greedy families do.

A: Such people exist only in theory. In practise, all people ask for dowry, and when it comes to higher grade boys ,as like Doctors, they ask for loads of gold and money..So tell me, should I let my daughter become a doctor and finally spoil my life in the name of her dowry, or should i marry off her to an average man, at the age mentioned earlier, when she is not so firm in her choices and opinions..On another note, there is no need for lady doctors…

Me: Some women are more comfortable with lady doctors and it’s a great career for the doctors. Parents can be very proud of a doctor daughter.

A: Yes, tell me what is the problem if there are male doctors alone? After all women are weak enough not to enter areas like surgery and such complicated stuff… Tell me how many efficient female surgeons and anaesthetists have you seen or heard?

Me: Although women are made to choose between career and home, women are doing very well in every field. Class X board results also show that although girls are made to help with housework, they still manage to do brilliantly.

A: That’s the only area where women can empathize with fellow patients..But even in that field, there isn’t a compulsory need. Labour and Caesarean will be fine in men’s hands too. Coming back to the topic I still stand by what i said,” Girls needn’t study much and should be married off early”…

Me: Well educated women, who are independent in mind and attitude, make matured and intelligent mothers and life partners. The whole generation, an entire family benefits.

A: You are wrong. In real time, it is the educated girls who come back to families, while the other end girls move on with their life, rather than shouting for divorce and such.

Me:

1.) If the girl’s husband is having an affair or is unhappy with her dowry and divorces her.  Or if he dies or looses his job – then what will happen to a girl who cannot support herself and her children.

2.) If her parents have no sons, and need someone to take care of them, then will she able to support herself.

A: You are wrong, good girls will find happiness where they go…

Me: Unfortunately this is proved wrong everyday…

Long-lasting marriages depend on compatibility and suitability.

Also happiness in marriage depends on both the partners. No amount of goodness will make an abusive man stop mentally or physically battering his wife.

Greed, violence, lack of consideration, cruelty etc cannot be cured by goodness. This can be somewhat controlled by endless supply of dowry and/or fear of consequences.

Parenting is a serious responsibility. Teaching a girl not to complain is convenient for parents, but it is also irresponsible. Daughters should be able to find ways to solve their problems and also take responsibility for their decisions. Guiding them and helping them achieve this is the parents’ responsibility and duty.

*    *    *

PS: Please do not criticize the person and say anything bad about her/him, as I don’t intend to hurt the person…But her/his thoughts are surely worth discussion, aren’t they?

No Education For The Fashion Conscious?

We had tried everything from nail-polish remover to Kerosene oil to fade the henna from my daughter’s  palms in 1999, she was in class III then, and her Delhi school forbade Henna on hands. We had just come back from a wedding and I understood that the school had its rules, if I did not like them I could take her out of the school.

She had seen another girl  being told not to come ‘dressed like a bride‘ and being made to sit on the floor. The eight year olds had discussed that God was going to punish the teacher who did this. (Is that what the rule aimed at?)

Now even though nobody noticed her henna, she was terrified for days. All I could do was give her a letter requesting the henna be excused, to be shown if someone checked her.

I have no idea how these students benefited from not applying henna. Clean hair, sparkling uniforms, shining shoes, confident smiles, a love of learning, and also a love for the school were what I valued. I would have added henna application as a fun-filled extra curricular activity.

My son has a mark on his forehead, so when he was young, I got him a haircut that covered it. He has gorgeous, straight, silky, shining hair, and a mushroom cut was most convenient and neat, kept his ears, neck, and eyes clear in hot and humid Delhi summers, but then we moved to Kerala and a school didn’t agree with kids being made ‘fashion conscious‘. He was in class III. His parents were fine with his looking like one of his favorite Westlife boys. The school wasn’t.

An older boy’s parents were ‘called to school’ because his mother allowed him to colour his hair.  Again I wonder if students do not have a life outside the school. Was it really that important? How does one be an all-rounder but not wonder how they might look with ear studs or coloured hair? Should the parents have a say in this?  How does long hair in boys mean lack of discipline?

We could leave our hair loose in my school, (meaning we could get away with taking off the hair bands and slipping them into our skirt pockets), and some of my friends who plaited their hair all through the school years complain that now they find hair left open very uncomfortable after all the years of two tight plaits.

Many schools have switched to traditional salwaar kurta for girls, but continue western wear for boys. How do they explain this bias to the students? They don’t think they need to explain. Is this discipline or authoritarianism ? How does this help with discipline? I know girls who resent this and have much more to say than the girls in class three mentioned above.

I consider grooming as important as being able to speak on stage, being good at sports or being polite. A lot of people look at taking care of oneself as the opposite of being ‘simple’. I feel well groomed (not necessarily good looking) people have an edge over those who aren’t. And grooming requires discipline too.

What schools seem to disapprove of is ‘fashion’  and a desire to look attractive. But why do we look down upon any desire to look one’s best?

So I was pleasantly surprised to read this morning on the front page of ‘The Times of India’,  ’Supreme Court Raps school for beard issue’.

“…a Bench comprising Justices B N Agrawal and G S Singhvi expressed its deep anguish at such ridiculous rules framed by schools.

Agreeing with Salim’s counsel senior advocate B A Khan, the Bench said: “How on earth could a school disentitle a student from pursuing studies just because he has kept a beard?” 
“Then there will be no end to such prima facie ridiculous rules. Tomorrow the school authorities would say they would not allow entry to students who are not fair in complexion,” wondered the Bench.

What I liked even better…

“These days it is a fashion for youngsters to sport an earring. Can these boys be denied admission to a school,” the Bench asked before issuing notice to the principal of the convent school and directing it to allow Salim to continue with his studies there.“

Note: Personally I would be most irritated if my 17-year-old coloured his hair or kept a beard, but then why should I decide how the rest of the world chooses to look? And what has acquiring basic education got to do with neat beards, washed and coloured hair, or ear studs in ears that have been scrubbed from behind?