American Woman’s response to the comments on her email in the previous post.
Hello to all!
I thank you all for the comments of all, regardless of whether I agree, or disagree with what you’ve said. I appreciate the wisdom of all. I would like to share my thoughts, and clear up some things. Apologies in advance for my long response!
Clearing Up:
We were not living together.
It’s not just about sex: Maybe a bit personal, but some of the comments suggested I was used for sex, and I can say that was not the case because we did not go there. Relationships don’t have to automatically mean sex (even in America). There are many other fun things you can do! It is okay to wait until the time is right, and respect the views of your partner. And if you move on to the most fun thing of all, more power to you! But this wasn’t the case for us.
I must admit I winced a little when reading some of the more harsh comments about my ex. It would take me a million emails to be able to describe this complex, yet wonderful, individual to you. And even then, I doubt I could capture the full scope of his character. If there is anything I have learned from this situation, it is that life is not black and white. There are many, many shades of gray.
There was one comment about me being a naive, Western woman, saying that I trusted him more because he is Indian. I definitely do not agree with that. If I am in any way naive, it would be to the intricacies of Indian culture, but I am learning as much as I can. I did not blindly trust him just because he is Indian. A man is still a man, race no bar!
My Thoughts:
My questions about Indian parents caring about the happiness of their children, has nothing to do with me blaming his parents, in particular, for the demise of our relationship. I don’t blame his parents at all. I question the societal pressure. Is it fair to have to consider the opinions of your neighbors when choosing a spouse? Is it fair that making your own decisions about your own life will bring your parents shame in the community because everyone is judging you and your family harshly? Why is is that people feel it is their place to make these harsh judgements? Why is this tolerated? Where is the honor in making other people feel horrible because they want to live their life? It is a basic human need to feel loved, and to desire the approval of those who love us. Is it fair that a person is socially conditioned to believe that their own happiness is not important?
I can understand that a collective mindset was once needed for survival, and might still be needed in many places, but are all aspects of it still relevant today? Do you think it could be hindering progress?
Disappointment aside, my ex does not want his parents to be hurt by having to deal with the negative backlash they will receive from their community if he does not do what is expected of him. He is from a conservative village where following tradition is still extremely important. He doesn’t want to cause his parents pain, and I can understand that. No child ever wants to hurt their parents. But, I do not think it is fair for him to have to make decisions about his life based on keeping up appearances in the society. And perhaps it is somewhat correct to call him spineless because he is willing to go along with such norms. I’ve definitely had the thought from time-to-time. But if this is the criteria for being judged as spineless, then how many spineless people are there in India, and in the world at large?
I sympathize with him, honestly. It is not fair that one should have to choose between keeping your family happy at the expense of bringing misery to yourself or, doing what makes you happy, only to hurt the ones you love. This setup, to me, is the problem. The emotional blackmail, the guilty feelings, all fall back on the society pressure.
I thought it was interesting that someone (I believe it was GV) said that if you knew what the boy was up to, would you tell the family of the girl he intended to marry. I don’t think that is right, or the business of anyone else. It would (and should) be up to him to tell his wife-to-be any details about us. Just as it will be my decision to tell my next boyfriend or husband, any details about this. All that matters is the present, not the past, as it can’t be changed. The value of my future husband to me will not be diminished just because I loved someone else before. If anything, future relationships benefit from the knowledge that we gained in past ones.
I ask: What do you all think is the solution for changing such society pressure? Do you think it should be changed? From the things I have read here, on IHM’s blog, I have formed the opinion that societal pressure seems to be at the root of the misery for a lot of people (DIL’s, victims of domestic abuse, unhappy husbands and wives, etc.)
As for us:
I think it is very valid to ask me why I did not get out of the relationship if I knew from the start that an arranged marriage would be in his future. It is also very valid to ask why he bothered being with me in the first place if he knew that he would for sure go the arranged route. Just like love and feelings are not simple, I don’t have a simple answer. And I don’t think anyone really, truly knows where they will end up at the start. Perhaps we didn’t know the feelings would end up being so deep? Perhaps the thought of having a broken heart and sweet memories, was a better alternative to just having a broken heart? Perhaps I held out hope that he would decide to forgo the arranged route? And honestly, I don’t think I really knew exactly what I was up against. I know a lot more about Indian culture now than I did when I first met him, or when we first got together. I’m sure we could be judged harshly and questioned for all of these things, but such is life. I don’t regret my time with him at all. If anything, I am disappointed that he is not willing to be an agent of change. Not for my sake, but for the sake of setting a different example in the village: that it is okay to consider your happiness too.
For me, I have the luxury of not being on a timeline. Marriage is important here (in US), but it is not seen as a duty. I am in my late twenties. Here, people may ask you when you plan on getting married, but it really doesn’t have to be done by a certain time for fear of your “worth” going down. So, the way my ex and I approach this thing might be different. For him “not working out” could mean we don’t get married, now what for me? For me, “not working out” means that we break-up and move on. I am not thinking about marriage right now. I am not dating for fun either, but I am going with the flow, no particular agenda in mind. I’m lucky to have that freedom. I’m still young. There are things I want to achieve for myself before I take on the role of wife.
I think there are pros and cons to collective and individual cultures. I believe that all cultures started out as collective as a way to survive, but my question to you all (and I hope you don’t take this as me being a snooty American), do you think the collective culture causes more harm than good? Is it possible to still have a sense of honor, respect, and duty without that meaning that individuals have to sacrifice their happiness for the (sometimes skewed and superficial) agenda of the group?
Also, do you think arranged marriages unfairly perpetuate the discriminatory caste system?
I just want to make one observation, the situation that our American friend has found herself in has become like an epidemic in India. I have been in and seen so many friends in the same dilemma! Some ended happily (In these cases, the guy put his foot down firmly. Parents took a year or so to come round.) and some not so happily (Guy giving in after suicide attempt by parent) and yet others where as most commentators said the guys were a**h**es. They dated, reaped benefits of loving relationships and then also the tag of the dutiful son , the parents were never even told of the relationship.
!
Arranged marriages within the same caste etc. do propagate such societal pressures. Arranged marriages with caste no bar, no dowry etc. also happen, and these are not bad in my opinion, just another way of finding a partner for life.
It is definitely not fair that anyone has to choose between his parents’ happiness and his own happiness. Here, parents are at fault in my humble opinion. Such a society never comes to your aid in troubled time anyways.
From this response, I can say that our american lady is a kind soul and I am sure she will have much love to look forward to in this life.
To conclude, “India is the world’s largest hypocrisy” as Dr. YumyumSingh said on twitter
I agree that it is common, but it happens to men too. I was in a relationship with a wonderful woman, but she didn’t have the courage to go against her parents and we finally had to break up.
Such an important point Desi Dude. And those words stand out to me: “She didn’t have the courage to go against her parents.” Not that she did not love you enough, or care for you enough. She simply lacked the courage.
There are indeed pros and cons to collectivism.
Collectivist societies can produce stunning vistas of prosperity and development, produce a brilliant sense of order everywhere, produce a sort of beautifully pruned uniformity.
For the individual, unfortunately, collectivism sucks almost by definition. A collectivist society has no use or place for individual dreams, wishes, ambitions, needs, emotions or anything of that sort. Individual talent is important only so far as it may promote the common good. The individual is nothing, and the collective is everything. YOU come last, always and every time.
Frankly, the idea of living in such a society is absolutely abhorrent to me. India may, in general, be called a collectivist society, but I think it is also very pluralistic. If you look hard, you can find your niche here. You can find people who think in a similar way. You can find others who have no desire to be a mere cog in the wheel. Apart from the immense economic opportunities, that is one of the reasons I’ve decided to work here for a while instead of returning to the US.
I’m not sure what you mean by honor and duty. I am not a military officer, or a government official or the heir of an aristocratic family. I have no delusions of grandeur. My past is a rather ordinary one and I am only a rather ordinary individual trying to find my own answers in life.
I have no honor to guard.
I have nothing to prove to the world, nor does the world have anything to prove to me. I have few duties other than the ones I define for myself and the ones which the law of the land defines for me. Life is too short for me to do anything but live it, and I will do precisely that, while trying my level best to ensure the happiness of the people I love and cherish in my life.
As far as arranged marriages go, I dislike and disagree with the whole concept. I think it is rather ridiculous on the whole to match up superficial factors such as income, profession, religion, caste (!) and family background and then sit back and hope, pray, demand, wish and grovel until things work out.
You don’t sound snooty at all. If you’ll forgive my saying so, you actually sound as though you’re treading very cautiously so as not to tread on someone else’s feelings about their culture.
You are a remarkable person.
I wish you all the best in your life.
Thank you so much!
I really like what you said about having no “honor” to guard. To me, this concept of honor seems to be all about carrying what other people say/think of you. No one can control that. You can have a top-of-the-line arranged marriage, giant wedding, and somewhere there could still be calling you an asshole under their breath. No one can control anyone else’s thoughts (or happiness), no matter what they do.
You ask some tough questions and there’s no simple answer to them. Its a vicious circle that will continue till we, as a collective, decide to change it. We’re a society whose foundation is built on what the neighbours may think. And you’re right. A lot of our traditions are built to perpetuate an us vs them attitude. We’re also a nation that thrives on guilt and sacrifice. If you’re familiar with bollywood movies up until as late as the 90′s – the mother always berates her deviant son by telling him that she carried him within her for 9 months then nursed him, and then THIS is what she gets in exchange. Its also about the absolute power of creation – you created a human being and damnit he/she owes you. They gave you life and therefore they own you. Regardless of race one has to be willing to stand strong by one’s convictions. You said it best – “he wasn’t willing to be an agent of change”.
I loved reading your reply. You articulate your thoughts well….you have a brain on your head….and more importantly I see no bitterness in the aftermath of the whole thing. Peace be with you American girl. May you move on to better and brighter things (and people).
Like you said, you are young, you have the freedom to choose. And right now you are relaxed with no pressure to settle down right away. That in itself makes a lot of difference. There is nothing snooty whatsoever about you…your observations are all spot on.
And do remember, for every man you meet who tucks his tail between his legs and meekly follows the crowd (sorry I just had to use this metaphor), you would come across men who want to carve their own individuality and stand apart from the rest.
In the meantime enjoy yourself, your life and your choices
Thank you Ashwathy!
“would you tell the family of the girl he intended to marry. I don’t think that is right, or the business of anyone else. It would (and should) be up to him to tell his wife-to-be any details about us”
From a western point of view, it may be rude and impolite for anyone but the man involved in the case to reveal the details of his love-life to his wife. But from an Indian view point, people are not very candid about sharing their past with someone they are engaged to be married to. I have to share what happened to some women from my family.
The lady got married in the early 60′s to an Indian doctor in the US. He came to India, got married and returned back to the US in 3 months. The lady gave birth to a boy and for the next 5 years, there were only letters from him. He regularly sent money to her and she lived in India with his mother. After 5 years, she learnt from some one that the man had married an American woman, even before he married her and also had children with his American wife. She was shattered. She had no education and she was not welcome in her parents home too. They never divorced officially.
The man never told his Indian wife about his American family. The Indian wife had no means of knowing about the American family too. Had it not been for the person who revealed the man’s life to his Indian wife, she would have remained in the dark.
Another one that happened in the mid-90′s. The Indian man was in love with a wealthy American girl. His mother in India reluctantly agreed to his marriage with the American girl. When he introduced his sister to the girl, there was some clash of views and his sister insisted that the marriage should never take place. The man, reluctantly entered into an arranged marriage with an Indian woman chosen by his sister. The Indian woman had no clue about his love life. After marriage, the couple returned to the US where the man continued to communicate and even meet his ex-American girl friend. He constantly abused his Indian wife at home cursing her and comparing her to his ex girl friend. The wife was from a small town in India and with help from some South Asian women’s group, she returned back to India and the marriage ended in a divorce.
If Indian men and women are frank and outspoken about their affairs and failed love lives, then no one in society need to be an informant.
I could also see it from the point of, if society didn’t put so much pressure on people to marry people they do not want to marry in the first place, then yes, no one would need to be an informant, and these two women would not have been hurt.
In the first case, the guy is simply not a good person. In the second, why would the guy let his sister arrange a marriage for him?
I could go on to say, maybe if there could be open communications between family members without fear of judgement and being disowned ect, maybe these two cases would not have happened, either.
Also, maybe if women were not treated badly when marriages fail, and given a second chance to find love and companionship, they could find men who really appreciate them instead of feeling as if they are bringing shame to their families.
American Woman – Your reply nailed several issues on the head and you put it much better than what I could express. Wish you good luck!
“Also, maybe if women were not treated badly when marriages fail, and given a second chance to find love and companionship, they could find men who really appreciate them.”
Now, how could we possibly agree to that?
We’re Indians you see, we like our women to suffer — in silence.
How could we possibly have a situation where women are not crucified for everything wrong that happens to them?
That would threaten the foundations of our Great Indian Culture.
That my dear, is unacceptable. Well, what would you know about culture, you’re American.
American Woman,
Your questions are spot-on. Some (not all) families, like your ex’s parents, are still insecure as what their neighbors will think for every decision they take, and (probably) end up being miserable throughout their life. If you question them, they will blame the Indian culture and society for that. It is basically the insecurity of their own future. They also successfully and mindlessly propagate this to their next generation. So, IMO the root cause is people’s insecurity. This is also the reason for the many issues a woman faces from the in-laws after she gets married.
Yes, this should be changed. It cannot happen until they realize they emotionally grow out of this insecurity.
You know, I doubt you will find more than a handful of people here who support the institution of arranged marriage as it is practised in India. This community (the blog writer as well as the commenters) is quite vehemently anti-arranged marriage, as you can see from many previous posts. If you are seeking reassurance that there are at least some Indians who recognise how unfair and prejudiced and oppressive the whole system is, you will find plenty of it here.
But you must understand: we are people who have lived in this culture all of our lives. We have dealt with this mindset for much longer than you have. We have confronted its power, endured its oppression, fought its tyranny, and often escaped from its shackles. As a result, we know what sane and strong people can and should do when faced with it.
I know you love your ex. I don’t doubt he is a thoroughly lovable man, complex and worthy and someone who should not be judged as “a bad person” just because he refuses to stand up to his parents.
But that does not change the fact that if he loved you, he would stand up to his parents and do whatever it takes to be with you.
I’m sorry. I know this is a painful fact to face.
But as I said, so many of us on this blog have stood up to our own parents and our inlaws to be with the person we love. We have been in your ex’s shoes. Yes, it’s very unfair that we were forced to choose between parents and spouse. But for us, it would have been nothing short of cowardly and immoral to break up with our girlfriends and boyfriends just in order to appease our parents.
I was wondering how to frame this… but @samosaofdoom , you have done it so well.
Yes, no doubt it is unfair that even when you are immensely fortunate to find an awesome person, more often than not we have to cause our parents *short term* stress.
And so many many of us have realized this, we were born into this system, and we have grown up watching this, and if we don’t change it , who will?
I say *short term* because in my experience , they will come around. They always do. I know of an couple from different religions , who stood up to their parents for six long years , no less. But in the end the parents come around. Because, it is simply impossible for even the most adamant parent to not be happy for their kids happiness.
Also, I don’t think arranged marriage by itself is an evil that we should do away with. My painfully shy ,socially awkward , never-had-a-girlfriend older brother, has found happiness the arranged marriage way.
Very good points. For me, it is not so much about his love of me, versus how much does he value his own freedom to live his life? From his willingness to go through with arranged marriage versus finding out if he can have love on his own terms, then perhaps not very much. I happen to be a part of that freedom at the moment (or was, rather), but if he’s not willing to stand up for his freedom, there is precious little I can do. I’ve cried, I’ve been mad, I’ve finally figured out that his issues have nothing to do with me personally. Let’s just say I’m glad I am not him.
The problem that we have here is that arranged marriages happen on a timeline. The older you get, the more it seems families want to get you married off. I have no such timeline. For all I know, we could be together and the relationship could fail miserably. Or we could be together, and decide to get married a few years down the line. He does not have those few years down the line. My regret, which I stated in my e-mail, is that I resent that we will never get to figure that out for ourselves.
“But for us, it would have been nothing short of cowardly and immoral to break up with our girlfriends and boyfriends just in order to appease our parents.”
This!
Also, from surfing the blogosphere of *non south asian woman* in a relationship with a *south asian man,* I find that the women put up with so much crap that south asian women, of the same background in terms of education and financial independence, would most definitely not! Kinda like the south asian man is saying ‘well, I’m Indian so in my culture the women do all the housework etc, etc…and so should you if you don’t want me to consider leaving you and getting an arranged marriage.’
American Woman,
First off, you are not snooty. You are very cautious in your words as to not hurt anyone’s sentiments.
Q. do you think arranged marriages unfairly perpetuate the discriminatory caste system?
A. Yes, they do. But in case of a love marriage, it is not always the ‘upper’ caste parents against the marriage. I know more examples, in which it’s the other way round. So, there is a Us Vs. Them mentality, but not necessarily the Superior vs. Inferior mentality.
Q.What do you all think is the solution for changing such society pressure? Do you think it should be changed?
A. It should be changed for sure. Financial independence of parents, end of joint family structure, women’s independence, women’s rights, removal of stigma of divorce and most importantly, the people who set examples will bring about change. We as parents can bring about a change in the way we raise our kids.
Q. do you think the collective culture causes more harm than good?
A. Yes
Q. Is it fair to have to consider the opinions of your neighbors when choosing a spouse?
A. No, not unless you believe in trophy wives/husbands and “keeping up with the Joneses”
Q. Is it possible to still have a sense of honor, respect, and duty without that meaning that individuals have to sacrifice their happiness for the (sometimes skewed and superficial) agenda of the group?
A. Of course! I am surprised you ask this question. Isn’t American society a reflection of all these values even though it is individualistic? I have been in the US for the past 8 years and I do see that. I have seen that Americans marry who they like, live their lives the way they want to, live in retirement homes and then assisted living. I don’t think they lose their honor, respect or duty. I have even seen American daughters bring home aged parents when the parents are unable to live by themselves.
Q.Is it fair that a person is socially conditioned to believe that their own happiness is not important?
A. Absolutely not, unless his survival depends on it (like in historical collective societies).
In India, it is very common for people to not be in any relationships because they know love marriages are ‘not allowed’ in the family. Short term relationships are considered ‘immoral’, even if the couple is just holding hands or just talking over the phone. If your ex’s future wife comes from this mindset and she expects her husband to have exactly the same mindset, she will be in for a surprise. I agree that she needs to be informed by your ex himself about you. Even in a liberal society, most people would like to know whether their current gf/bf is over the ex. Same principle applies here. If he is not over you, she needs to know. BUT, if having his worth down in the arranged marriage market is stopping him from telling her about you, it’s not fair to her. If his future wife were my best friend, I would tell her about you. Then it would be up to her to determine if he is over you or not or whether she wants somebody with a mindset similar to hers (that looks down upon short term relationships). I have seen women who did not have any past relationships grow jealous about the husband’s past just because they don’t know “getting over” is possible. I would like my best friend to save herself that trouble by helping her make an informed decision. I don’t think arranged marriage is the way to go, but if one opts for it, then they should be doing the “background check” which is part of arranged marriage too.
I am glad you are over your ex and don’t harbor any hard feelings towards him for breaking your heart. Hugs.
@American woman
Remember the social conditioning that only a few decades back asked for segregation based on the color of your skin? Would you not blame the people who followed this in their time even a little? After all, society is a collection if individuals and culture is the sum total of its thoughts. It is like asking if an individual vote counts in a democracy. It does. It may not get the person you want elected, but if enough people exercise their actual choice, there is a chance that it will. We cannot give up without trying and then blame the society. We make the society.
Will your boyfriend’s parents go through some stressful time? Yes of course they will. They will probably be the center of negative attention for a while. Will your boyfriend go through the stress? Yes he will. Life is not easy, it is about doing the right thing, atleast when they matter the most.
You ask if this practice of social conditioning is right, and yet you say you understand that your boyfriend does not want to hurt his parents – which is infact actually giving a heads up to this practice. How can the behavior change when there are no people ready to be the front runners?
I am sorry to say, but your boyfriend is condoning the same culture that is hurting him now by giving in to the pressure instead of doing what feels right. And you cannot blame the parents or the society. He is in a place where he has a choice and he chose not to make it. It is his fault.
I totally agree with you. For change to happen, people have to be uncomfortable. Some people just aren’t agents of change. No matter how much we wish they could be.
What do you all think is the solution for changing such society pressure?
Education, possibly. Though that’s not, in and of itself, going to create change. I’d say education of women. My fiancé is an Indian man as well [born and raised in India] and his family is drastically different from your ex’s. It’s interesting to note that the women in his family have all had university degrees [from his grandmother’s generation onwards].
Marriage is important here (in US), but it is not seen as a duty. I am in my late twenties.
I don’t know about that—I definitely think there’s pressure on women in North America, to get married before 30. Sure, it may not be ‘societal pressure’ from fellow villagers who equate marriage with duty, but there definitely is pressure reflected on TV, movies, literature, magazines, retail chains [Neiman Marcus has a ‘date night’ section for god’s sake] etc, all of which equate not being married by the early thirties with, in simple terms, being a loser.
I do not think collective cultures cause more harm than individualistic cultures. Both, in their extreme form, can be equally oppressive. You should also consider that pretty much all countries in which individualistic culture is more prevalent are rich countries, so it’s easy to say that life is ‘better’ there.
Coming from a collective culture and being raised in an individualistic culture, I believe that a ‘blend’ of both is the best alternative.
The marital pressure depends on what part of the country you reside in. In some places, being married by 30 is the goal, in others people can’t imagine being committed at such a young age.
I would actually disagree with that point. Even in a place as liberal and diverse as NYC, I’m willing to bet that the self-help section of all bookstores will be full of books that cater to women about relationships. To give you an example, the extremely pathetic book written by Lori Gottlieb, Marry Him became a best seller.
Canada’s slightly different in that it’s not so conservative as the US in terms of marriage and family, but the average age for a woman with a university degree to get married is 31–which is pretty darn close to 30 [much lower in the US, I believe].
Sorry for your heart break. I feel for your ex. But still it looks like he was just afraid to take a stand, or deal with the unpleasantness of it all. I don’t know if he has spoken to his parents about your relationship or not, because more often than not if the guy takes a firm stand, parents have come around.
Regarding whether or not one should inform about a guy’s past to the girl’s family, I disagree when you say its his business. Even though I understand that its a very personal thing, there are many many instances where the guys have chickened out, or fallen for their parent’s pressure and not informed the girl anything about their past. Arranged marriages are not solely based on the credentials of the boy and his family. People enquire about the guy even before taking the first step and thats when they take the help of friends and family to tell them if they know anything about the guy.
“Is it fair to have to consider the opinions of your neighbors when choosing a spouse?” You have to remember that it’s not just about nosy neighbours. In a country with no social security, some parents have wagered their whole future on their son’s marriage. They may have paid for his education on the assumption that they will recoup that money on his dowry. In their minds, what he is doing is not fair because he has broken the understood social contract.
“Do you think it could be hindering progress?”
Well, it depends. In a village, people running off and marrying whoever they choose could cause division of ancestral property and a number of economic problems. In the corporate set-up, some family-run firms are very effective and it might cause a breakdown of the entire company if people just did what they wanted.
“Then how many spineless people are there in India, and in the world at large?”
I think spineless is a strong word, but most people don’t have the courage to walk the hard road. It’s just sad if you had been counting on them to go with you and they back out. But at the end of the day, it is them that chose not to walk it, and though one can understand and sympathise, you can’t only blame the road. Marrying someone against your parents wishes and facing losing them is a hard battle but your man is not a pioneer in this. It has been done before several times, so the road is somewhat charted. Also, as a financially-independent person, living in a different country, he even has better tools for success.
Regarding, who should tell the girl’s family about the boy’s past relationship, yes, ideally the boy should be honest with his future wife. But arranged marriages are arranged between families. It is the families that are supposed to check the background of the person they are fixing someone up with. That is the nature of the beast. It is like doing due diligence before a contract is signed.
Since the move to an individualistic society is inevitable, things will change. They are already changing. The question of which kind of society is better is a futile one, because this is the trajectory of human history. The traditionalists will resist but they will not win.
Regarding arranged marriages propogating the caste system, yes, that is one of the problems with them. But there are arranged marriages that do not propogate the caste system also. Would you be ok with those?
Finally, one thing that people pointed out in their comments on the last post, which might help you deal with your disappointment – marriage to this Indian man is only the start of a long battle. The parents may ultimately accept the marriage but you may have to deal with many many things once married which might make the pre-wedding struggle seem like a cakewalk. That’s not to say it can’t work and end in a happy marriage. My husband and his two sisters all fought their parents to get married to spouses of their choice. All of us are happy now and the parents are reasonably happy with the spouses too. But that does not always happen and you have to be very very sure that your man will stand by you not only in the event for marriage but in all the upcoming battles and struggles with the family.
American Woman,
Ur boy friend unfortunately seems to be adamant to remain a member of a fast vanishing tribe, even in t 3rd World, a tribe who insist on allowing t family elders t upper hand in choosing t spouse. With in a few decades, that tribe will disappear for ever.
We do not have choice between feudalism and Capitalism, same as we do not now have a choice between monarchy and democracy.
Is there anything called individual culture? Culture by definition is not individual. You might have meant an economic system where individuals have more control of their lives. Here again we do not have any choice. Economic forces and Science takes us forward. Some unsure ppl may cling on to old ideals a bit long but will soon be swept by the tide. Wht we are discussing here is to how to persuade those last few individuals to let go their feudal mind set. They will be forced to eventually as they cannot survive otherwise.
I believe this “not hurting your parent” thing in India especially is over rated. Very well meaning educated guys (specially) take shelter of this and not act on what they think is right? It could be just deciding on your career or marriage or anything else. I have also seen that this same people where it hurts them deeply they are OK with going against their parents (maybe secretly for e.g say eating non-veg/ having girl friends/ staying out late at night/ boozing, etc). But when it comes to taking up the stand for right cause, they develop cold feet.
The point I’m trying to make is that if the person in question believes that he/she is not doing anything they should take a stand. Period. Yes, even at a cost. The cost is needed, it is a small price you pay for correcting things in the world. Do you think when “sati” was abolished or the first “widow” was married, parents weren’t hurt? But, someone choose to stand up and say- No, I know I’m not doing anything wrong and eventually my parents, society, world will see the point.
I can give my own example. Ten years back even as the eldest son in a “Marwari family (business class, rich family) I said- No, I’m going to have simple marriage, there won’t be any dowry, there won’t be any give and take on money of any kind from both sides. And this caused several hurt burns on both parents. The society wasn’t happy. Only ten people from my family where invited to the marriage (even my brothers & sisters din’t attend) and I had hurt many people in the process. But today, I look back and I have no regrets. While I do stand as an example but not many took the path I took and I see lot of the ugly stuff still continues in marriages.
A friend of mine got married in an inter-caste marriage for which his parents were not happy about it, but he fought with them and got married. However, this same guy- refused to attend his best friend’s funeral next day (unfortunately – a close friend died next day at a young age) because he felt his parents wouldn’t like him going to a thing like this- since it will be an ill-omen. So, while this guy was OK to hurt his parents on his marriage front (since it suited him) – but not taking responsibility to attend a friend’s funeral was an easier choice and blame it on parents !
Essentially the point I’m trying to make is that as humans we don’t want to take responsibility of our acts and we hide by putting the blame on someone else. It could be society/culture/parents, etc. But fundamentally if you believe in what you are doing, you should stand for it. Yes, even if it means hurting a few people. In the bigger scheme of things – this won’t matter and trust me- the world needs people like this.
@Anil, I love your comment.
//”Essentially….as humans we don’t want to take responsibility of our acts and we hide by putting the blame on someone else.”//
That’s exactly the reason. ‘Not hurting parents’ is just an excuse (may be subconsciously, but it is still an excuse) for those who don’t want to take that responsibility needed for ones actions.
I agree wholeheartedly, the ‘not hurting parents’ thing is overrated and taken too far in India. If what you are doing feels right, there is no way it can hurt your parents or anyone. Period. And if they *chose* (yes they are choosing it over being accepting and happy) to be hurt, they better “learn” to grow out of it the hard way (which they will eventually).
Kudos to you for taking that stand. I know only a handful would do that and I am all admiration for such people. I have no real sympathy for people who say they do things so as not to hurt parents. What they mean is “It is easier this way.”
Thanks Shail, I have braved up a few in my journey of life too. Mostly my sisters & cousins but when it comes to friends – they soon make me an outsider when I preach this kind of stuff
.
I understand the desire to honor ones parents, but at some point there has to be a line drawn somewhere, IMO.
That’s true, however there’s people always warning that you should hurry soon because of our biological clocks, of course, not considering the fact not everyone wants children and even so, there are other options such as adoption.
You don’t sound like a snooty American, for me I did have a hard time understanding the concept of arranged marriages. My belief was always well how can marry someone you don’t even know nor love? Then I realized it’s more complicated than that and in parts of India there’s progress occurring where people are marrying out of compatibility and love. To answer your questions I believe there are pros and cons to highly collective cultures, just as it is with highly individualist cultures like America.
I believe it is possible to honor and respect without having to sacrifice ones happiness. But I have to admit that it’s really interesting to see how people are sometimes labeled as being selfish when they’re choosing to do what they want and not what the group wants.
Right. Why isn’t anyone calling the group selfish?
This “man” is afraid of his parents being looked down upon ? There are teenagers in every goddamn village in India who elope because their society doesn’t approve of their relationship. sometimes with painful or tragic consequences.
Parents, society, tradition are just shields for cowards to use as excuses. Please spare me the wailing about how Indian society wouldn’t permit it. For every case that makes the headlines for the wrong reasons, there are a 100 where parents accept their children’s’ choices because they love their offspring, no matter how much they disagree with their path.
There are kids being lynched by khap panchayats for eloping and you are whining about a little temporary discomfort that his parents may feel.
Agree with Amol’s view
Dear Lady,
It is nice that you believe and empathise with your ex for his reasons to not marry you., but I feel if he truely loves you, he should be able to get his parents around (though they may not approve, they may just live with this fact). As some one has already pointed out, if we was so bothered about his villagers, their ideas, and his parents’ ‘honour’ he had no business to play with your emotions, even with an understanding that the relationship is temporary.
Yes Arranged marriages are generally the norm in India, but villages have also witnessed love marriages though as exceptions. As Amol mentioned herein, the girl and boy fight all odds (society / parents / inlaws ). What is in your favour is that both of you are away from his village.
A suggestion – He can invite his parents over to USA to understand you better and explain the situation better. I understand that they may not be able to communicate with you, if they are not comfortable with English. Once he spends time with them , probably they would be better equipped to accept you , if not approve.
You are the best judge where things stand on this suggestion.
All the best.
Absolutely, right on.
This “man” should read about those ill-fated, star-crossed lovers who are hunted down and killed by khap panchayats in Haryana.
These young people defend their love, quite literally, with their lives.
I am not glorifying or advocating reckless abandon in love, but like Anil said earlier on, if you cannot fight for what you believe in, there’s not much that you stand for, to begin with.
Dear American Woman,
Thanks for your detailed response to our comments and for the clarifications and additional information.
I must admit, your clarification that you were not living together, makes me feel relieved a little. I feel the break-up will be less painful than it would have been if you had been living together.
I don’t have much to add to what so many enlightened readers here have said already.
Since it was I who brought up the issue of informing the parents your Ex’s future bride, let me share a few thoughts on this.
Considering that your Ex had been very honest with you in his relationship I presume he will be inclined to be equally honest and may tell his future bride about his earlier relationship with you.
But in case his parents know about it (You have still not told us if is parents know about you) they will in all probability, insist on their son keeping mum about it and if he can ditch you to keep them happy, he will acquiesce here too. In the arranged marriage market in India, some of a boy’s family’s bargaining power reduces when there is a history of a past relationship. Since a lot of homework is done, in inquiring about the families, most of us would consider it our duty to alert the girl’s family about the facts, if we cared about the welfare of the girl. It is of course a different matter if the girl and her family are okay with the history of the boy. But not informing them would make most of us feel guilty.
We would feel that we have neglected our social duty if we treated this as “none of our business”. Your ex’s dalliance with you for seven whole months without any “honourable intentions” is considered despicable behaviour in orthodox Indian society and not easily pardoned even if he was up front about it with you. The least he can and should do in fairness to his future bride, is to tell her privately about his past association with you, and leave it to her to decide if it matters to her. Ideally he should face his parents boldly and inform them also but if he prefers “spineless convenience” instead, he could do it discreetly and inform only his future bride.
To prevent this comment from getting longer than it already is I will avoid giving details but merely mention two cases of arranged marriages in which families carefully concealed critical information from each other and relatives in the know did not do the right thing in time by alerting the boy/girl/and their families and how the marriages ended in a social and domestic disaster for the couple and also their families. If there is an opportunity later, or if you are personally interested, I can tell you the details privately.
Many thanks for sharing your experience with us and let me assure you that you have our sympathies and that we are all your well wishers. I hope and pray you get over this sad experience and your future is full of happiness.
Regards
GV
Appreciate your comments. And I might I say that I think you have the best avatar on this blog? That picture of you sitting in the raft makes me smile!
I must say that perhaps this concept of “social duty” should be looked in to. A lot of things done in the name of social duty, might not be that good for the people you are trying to protect. How much say should a community get in the personal affairs of it’s inhabitants? Is it not selfish of the group to dable in the affairs of another for the sake of keeping up appearances?
If I get hit by a car, I expect it to be your social and moral duty to get me to a hospital, asap. If I get married, and chose to tell my husband myself that I was romantically involved with another before marriage, I see that as my business.
The issue, in my opinion, is that women in India do not have the same freedom to have the same affairs if they wish too. They are excepted to be virgins. I am sure they have expectations for what they think marriage will be like, as all women carry in their heart a fantasy of what their ideal man will be like. Then when they have a life of servitude to a rude MIL, and end up with a man who thinks they are a free housekeeper, where is the social duty police then to say hey, this is not right?
If social duty is such a big deal, why are there so many women in Indian who are made to feel as if they have to stay in abusive relationships? Why are there so many women who are made to feel as if these relationships are their fault? Why do they not get a second chance at a good life, when following the status quo threatens to kill them? Why are they stigmatized by their community and families when they want better for themselves? Why are they seen as a shame?
The real shame is allowing these things to happen and turning a blind eye in the name of culture and tradition.
I ask you, where are the social duty police then? Where are the neighbors and friends who are so eager to cast judgement on a man for loving another woman in a foreign land? Why aren’t these same people out saving burning brides and protecting women who are being killed in the name of honor?
Why is it that the sexuality of the Indian women is under the control of everyone else except her?
You seem to view the relationship as something beautiful and transient. Good for you that you can look back at it in a sad but yet contented way. I hope you find a man who can be your life partner and enrich his life with the positivity that you showed in this post. All that I can say, is that I still feel disappointed in our ex’s decision. I have a feeling that if he chose to marry you and then tried to make up for going against his parents, you would have been in an even unhappier situation. It takes a lot of courage for young men in India to marry against parents’ wishes, and if they do, it takes more courage to resist the pressure on them to show that they are still ‘loyal’ to their parents in spite of choosing their own wives.
May be your ex’s hands were tied, but if he gets into a marriage with an unknown girl chosen by his parents, I hope he can give his commitment to her. If he ends up resenting her, because he had to give up you, he will be doing great disservice to people all around ( in addition to what he has done to you). I hope it doesn’t get as messy as that.
I am curious – was he an only son to his parents? If he came from a family with more than one son, probably the pressure on him to conform to his parents’ wishes would be lesser.
Thank you for your comments. I do view it as something beautiful and transient. Just another experience in what I hope, is a long journey of life.
No, he’s not an only son. He has a few other siblings.
//would you tell the family of the girl he intended to marry. I don’t think that is right, or the business of anyone else. It would (and should) be up to him to tell his wife-to-be any details about us.//
American Woman, the hallmark of a traditional arranged marriage is that it is a contract, the terms and conditions of which are negotiated by the two sets of parents. These terms and conditions are, as you would expect, quite heavily tilted in favour of the boy and his family. In the event of anything going wrong post marriage, the girl and her side of the family are hit way harder–obtaining a divorce is often not easy, and in any case it is a dirty word and carries a stigma. So the girl’s family try their best to find out every last bit of information about the boy before the marriage takes place, and they often seek inputs from third sources–it is understood that the boy’s family is not likely to be upfront about their son’s dalliances in the past even if they know of them.
And why should the boy’s past be an issue at all? Well, for several reasons.
You will agree that there is little affection, and certainly no ‘love’, between the spouses early on in their arranged marriage–the girl is supposed to ‘win over’ her husband gradually by ‘the goodness of her heart’.(If she cannot do that, *shrug* she is probably not performing her wifely duties well enough, or maybe she is not that good at heart?*smirk*) You must understand that it is tough enough already for the girl. And if the boy happened to be involved with someone prior to his marriage and is going the arranged way only to please his parents, he can only be resentful and not quite responsive to her ‘good heart’. Another possibility is that the guy knew all along that he will be having an arranged marriage but still had casual flings just for fun–which to me is hypocrisy of the highest order and does not reflect too well on him as a person. Both of these scenarios might make it infinitely more difficult for the girl.
So, American Woman, if I happen to know a girl, and come to know for sure that the boy her family is wanting her to marry is, or was until recently, involved with another girl, I would definitely ask her and her family to find out more, maybe have a frank discussion with the boy himself about the reasons why he is agreeing to this marriage, and by all means go right ahead if they feel that whatever happened is not likely to cast a shadow on their future relationship. I would do that even at the risk of being seen as meddling in other people’s affairs.
I would of course never interfere if the girl I know is seeing a man who is known to have a past–ON HER OWN. In that case it is completely between the two of them, and it is entirely upto the boy to disclose or not disclose his past. In that case the past does not really matter, as long as the two of them love each other or just enjoy each other’s company.
I agree that future relationships benefit from the knowledge that we gained in past ones–just that arranged marriages are a different ballgame altogether and hence have to be treated differently.
Hey Scribblehappy,
You will probably disagree totally with what I have to say, but when I was reading your statement, I thought back to the question I posed in my original email: Why do parents treat their children like business agreements?
Honestly, I can see how Indian men, and Indian women living abroad have these relationships. We never really talk about Indian women dating American men, but it does happen. I think more emphasis is placed on the man, because we expect him to be a MAN and stand up to his family. Where as, if it’s a woman who says she can’t disappoint her parents, it’s seen as well, okay, because she’s not expected to show any strength anyway….. but that might be a topic for another post.
Scribblehappy, I don’t know your love life history, but the feeling of having someone like/love you for who you are (not what you are) is pretty powerful. No one, not even Americans, get into any relationships with knowledge of how it will turn out. Many have asked how American girls can get into relationships with guys who say they will have an arranged marriage. Easy. It’s because we never actually believe they will go through with it. Our cultures tend to promote two very different messages. It is my opinion that American culture glorifies freedom and love. These two things are not present in the arranged marriage structure. So it is hard for us to believe or understand why anyone would go and marry a stranger after experiencing what it is like to be with someone you actually chose. We generally don’t have a concept of this societal pressure.
It is my hope that things in India will shift and change so that the women are not held up on an unfair, virginal pedestal. They too, should have an opportunity to have other relationships and decide whether or not they want to disclose all of the details to their husband. Why is everyone trying to control everyone’s sexuality and the way they express themselves?
Also, if the husband still carries feelings for his American lady in his heart, that is understandable. Especially if he feels resentful for having to have an arranged marriage, but that is, like everyone said, his choice. I’m sure there are also a ton of Indian men who carry feelings for Indian women that they actually LOVE but felt they could not be with for one reason or another. And vice versa. The solutions to me are communication and elimination of this social pressure that pushes people into marriages they didn’t want in the first place.
American Woman,
I actually agree with almost everything you have to say. The way parents treat their children like business agreements totally bugs me too, and I cannot tell you just how much I loathe the arranged marriage system. I feel it is the root cause of all our social ills. Like you, I too fervently hope for an elimination of this social pressure that pushes people into marriages they didn’t want in the first place. But then I am also aware that things being what they are, arranged marriages cannot be wished away this soon. People who benefit from this system will fight tooth and nail to keep this system in place, and at least some young people will continue to succumb to the pressure, just like your ex did. I am not sure I will see the last of all arranged marriages in my lifetime.
The point I was struggling to make, unsuccessfully it would seem, is that any girl who is getting married the arranged way, must be helped make an informed
decision– a lot is riding on that one decision as far as the girl is concerned. The bitter truth is, a guy’s family will not disclose any information about their son’s previous romantic involvements for fear of their son’s market value going down. This fact is well-understood and accepted by the girl’s family–it is the nature of the beast you see.–which is why they actively seek the unbiased opinion of anyone who might be in a position to give one and glean as much relevant information about the boy and his family as possible. Not that all of them succeed.
You admit that it is understandable that a guy may carry feelings for the woman he cared about and be resentful –why do you then oppose the idea of the girl’s family being made aware of whatever it is that is likely to make a guy resentful? (I repeat, bear in mind that the guy or his family is not likely to let them know beforehand) Surely even those dumb girls who agree to having an arranged marriage to keep their family and society happy, don’t deserve to be stuck for life with someone who is openly resentful right from the start? Surely their families should get the chance to decide whether they think they are okay with what they are getting, and that at least the girl should enter the relationship with her eyes open?(Here I must clarify that the nationality of the ‘other’ woman is of no consequence–I perfectly understand that it is more than possible
for an Indian guy to be involved with an Indian woman and not be able to marry her for more or less the same reasons)
In your particular case too, American Woman, I have a feeling that the girl your ex is going to marry will never learn about you or the intensity of your ex’s feelings for you until after they get married, when she cannot ‘unmarry’ him even if she wanted to.It’s a fate I wouldn’t wish for any girl anywhere, whether or not she is known to me.
Scribblehappy,
I understand your point when given in the context of the cultural system with arranged marriages. To me the shame is the people (man and woman) not being able to choose their partners and or get to have an opportunity to discover what they may like in a mate before one is socially forced upon them.
You know what is funny? When I was reading your post, I instantly thought about defective merchandise.
You know how when you go to a store, and you are picking out a toaster. It seems all shinny, and like it will get the job done. A person next to you, who sees you pick out this particular brand of toaster, leans over and says, nah, not that one. That toaster has a defect. One of the buttons doesn’t pop up. The shopper thanks the person and moves on to a new toaster.
Or, if the shopper doesn’t know about the button issue, they pick out the toaster and take it home. Doesn’t discover until later that the button has a problem.
Now, the difference, the one that is most important, is that in a society free of negative social pressure, the shopper can return the defective toaster back to the market place. Pick out a new one, and go home.
With social pressure, you are stuck with the toaster. No returns. Just half-baked toast for the rest of your life. And even though you may tell family and neighbors that your toast is half-baked, they insist you keep the toaster for the good of everyone else, even though they will never taste the toast.
I don’t really think I should be able to so easily compare people to toasters, but in this situation I can. That is troubling to me, and falls back into the people as commodities issue.
American Woman, the social pressure evolves out of a social need. This is a society where the family functions like social security does in Western countries. Future generations are a retirement plan so to speak. So it’s not just society that has to change, but the economy as well. People need to be paid enough, or the government have plans in place so that people can save enough for their old age, without having to rely on their children. This social pressure did not evolve out of pettiness alone.
The example you gave about toasters, there’s an economics term for it, something on the lines of ‘incomplete information’. Even in the case of toasters, people would ideally like to buy a toaster that they believe will last for a number of years. That’s why people even do research on toasters before buying them. The fact that a toaster can be returned or has a warranty is of some comfort but ideally you’d rather not have the hassle. So you can imagine that when choosing a spouse, even outside the arranged marriage set up, one would like as complete information as one can have.
Hello Friend,
My heart goes out you. Yes, we all live in hope that someday things will change in our favor and we can have a happy ending. Just hoping and wishing your guy has a change of heart and marries you, for you come across as a very sensible and loving soul. I fully agree, life is not black and white and its simply not easy to express why and how you ended up being in a relationship with this guy in-spite of knowing that your time with him was limited. Yes, we all may call him spineless, weak, etc but a heart who is in love with such a man can only be waiting for a miracle. I just hope he is able to realize life is about being happy and only a happy person can make others happy. Wishing genuinely that lady luck smiles on you and your man takes a sensible decision. Best of luck.
Thank you! Very sweet message.
Yes, it is not easy to explain how I ended up in this relationship. But I am not the first American girl to fall for an Indian guy, and I will not be the last. And while many people frown at these Indian guys and say they are horrible, I feel bad for them because the majority aren’t just having flings. They are stuck between two places. I have heard of this happening even in India.
You were spot on when you say: “Yes, we all may call him spineless, weak, etc but a heart who is in love with such a man can only be waiting for a miracle.”
Culturally, it’s who we are as Americans. We don’t believe in giving up until every resource has been exhausted. Arranged marriages really are a foreign concept to us as it goes against two of our major themes : freedom and love. I think any girl who gets into a relationship with an Indian guy doesn’t ever believe he will actually go through with it until he actually does. We just can’t understand why anyone would chose to marry a stranger. We learn the hard way, unfortunately.
“It would take me a million emails to be able to describe this complex, yet wonderful, individual to you.”
-Yes I do not know him but then I am an Indian and to me it sounds like he was having a no strings attached relationship.
Is it fair to have to consider the opinions of your neighbors when choosing a spouse? – No, I definitely don’t approve of it but when one lives in India, that kind of societal pressure is immense, and it takes a lot of courage to break from it. He is living abroad away from it all in one sense at least.
Is it fair that making your own decisions about your own life will bring your parents shame in the community because everyone is judging you and your family harshly?- No, but someone has to change and break free, so that the society can change. Also, he is a male and the pressure on him is definitely a lot lesser than on females.
Why is is that people feel it is their place to make these harsh judgements? – It is not correct, but everyone judges. I have experienced racism, I have been judged coz I am Indian, what about judging celebrities, their every single kilo they put on etc. Everyone judges and it is not restricted to our society alone. Maybe the things they judge differs.
Why is this tolerated? – Tough question. If you can’t do anything to break it, you suffer silently. Also, it is years of indoctrination which makes you think it is correct. I know of a girl who thinks people who have crushes or boyfriends are weird..
Is it fair that a person is socially conditioned to believe that their own happiness is not important? – This is rehashed as not being selfish and making everyone feel happy, something like sacrifice which is a very high ideal in our society
Do you think it could be hindering progress? – Yes it is
Disappointment aside, my ex does not want his parents to be hurt by having to deal with the negative backlash they will receive from their community if he does not do what is expected of him. – He was not expected to be in a relationship with an American woman either. He did it anyway.
He is from a conservative village where following tradition is still extremely important. He doesn’t want to cause his parents pain, and I can understand that. No child ever wants to hurt their parents. But, I do not think it is fair for him to have to make decisions about his life based on keeping up appearances in the society. – Well, this exists in other societies too. One wants to get a better car, house, phone, laptop to impress others. How many people are in high paying jobs they hate to maintain their high flying lifestyle?
And perhaps it is somewhat correct to call him spineless because he is willing to go along with such norms. I’ve definitely had the thought from time-to-time. But if this is the criteria for being judged as spineless, then how many spineless people are there in India, and in the world at large? – There are a lot of spineless people around here. The reason I call him spineless is not coz he is following the norms but he is following the norm when it suits him. Is dating the norm here? Is being in a relationship with a woman from a different caste, race the norm here? He broke them then right? Then when it comes to marriage, he cannot break it huh?
It is not fair that one should have to choose between keeping your family happy at the expense of bringing misery to yourself or, doing what makes you happy, only to hurt the ones you love. This setup, to me, is the problem. The emotional blackmail, the guilty feelings, all fall back on the society pressure. – true very true, I guess I am going to soon experience it too.
I thought it was interesting that someone (I believe it was GV) said that if you knew what the boy was up to, would you tell the family of the girl he intended to marry. I don’t think that is right, or the business of anyone else. It would (and should) be up to him to tell his wife-to-be any details about us.
- It may be wrong in American context, but in Indian context it is more appropriate. The guy can’t tell his family, he likely won’t tell the parents of the girl coz it would cause a hullabaloo, very doubtful he will tell the girl. The girl may even be shocked if she is from a small village. Would this guy be okay if his future Indian wife had past relationship? doubtful. Why should a poor innocent girl be led into marrying a guy who does not love her, have her parents pay a fat dowry to the guys family, be ostracized just coz the guy could not reveal the truth to his parents? I know quite some people who have relationships abroad and conveniently go for arranged marriage to girls in India. So you get a maid and lots for money for marrying in India. Very convenient.
What do you all think is the solution for changing such society pressure? Do you think it should be changed? Yes, it should be changed but if it was easy, lot of us would have done it by now. We are trying to change things slowly.
Also, do you think arranged marriages unfairly perpetuate the discriminatory caste system? Yes
Here’s how one gets marriage proposals from a bride’s father:
Son what’s your name?
Abhishek
Abhishek what?
Abhishek ‘so and so’
‘so and so’…hmm…what are you then? (implies what’s my caste)
and this is the first question asked…caste is still the foremost criteria in arranged marriages. A cursory glance through the matrimonial columns will tell you the same thing.
Its one of the main problem in India where parents think that if the child marry against there will then they will be happy for the rest of their lifetime and also they will make the society against them by doing so.
Only need is that we should be able to convince our parents for the decision we are taking and also parents should understand the feelings.
American woman, if he didn’t stick with you today, feel happy because there are a lot more problems that creep in because of families after marriage and he would never have stuck with you.
Be happy girl, there are many spineless men, and in fact more spineless women.
About arranged marriage, I am in one for last 15yrs, and perfectly happy with my life! It works if the two people love, care and support to each other through thick and thin. Everything is mainly to do with the attitude in a relationship, love or arranged.
I love how you understand this guy without being bitter, you are a wonderful, open-minded woman, there is certainly a better man out there for you.
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