Let me share this email and two responses it elicited (Thanks GV!)
Shortage of girls makes it easier for Indian girls to achieve their only goal in life – Get-Married and then, Stay-Married. (Applies to all Indian communities)
My comments in red.
Opportunity for girls!
Posted by: ***********
Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:34 pm (PDT)
Now there is more demand for girls as brides in the society. They can find bridegrooms more easily than it is vice-versa.
It is a golden opportunity for parents to marry their daughters early.
This way many social evils afflicting our society like,
1. Our girls running away with other castes/community or even worse, with boys from other religions can be prevented. (How is that an opportunity for girls? )
2. Girls will not get settled in their work and will be flexible to move to the place of her husband. (And that is an opportunity for girls? )
3. Biological urges manifest as love affairs with any man around. Early marriage is the best remedy for it. (‘Any man around’ meaning a man not from the community?)
4. Girls will not develop many strong likes and dislikes and it is easy for them to adapt to husband and his family. (And not developing their own choices is an opportunity for girls?)
This way many divorces can be prevented. (Saving marriage by leaving one partner no option but to ‘adapt’ (to not only the other partner, but also his entire family) is an opportunity for women?)
5. Young girls means young husbands. All these points also apply to the boys. (Give up on education and self reliance, to marry young?)
6. Women should be life partners and not mere wives They should help the husband evolve spiritually and not be a mere sex object. This is more likely in an early marriage. (Lack of education and independence of mind helps in ‘evolving spiritually’? Or in helping one’s spouse evolve spiritually?)
If our women go astray, the whole society deteriorates. All scriptures warn of women going astray. This is a good chance for the xyz community to recover lost ground. The parents should see the window of opportunity and grab it fast!
Many women rights activists may not agree with some of the points above. Let them allow their girls to explore all the men in the world. Let us not disturb them. Let sensible xyz community take care of their own wards.
Regards,
A Responsible Parent belonging to xyz community.
Response – 1
28 September 2011
Dear ************ and Fellow ******
Greetings.
“….Many women rights activists may not agree with some of the points above. Let them allow their girls to explore all the men in the world. Let us not disturb them. Let sensible folks from xyz community take care of their own wards”.
That’s what is called tongue-in-cheek! Oh boy, great, brilliant stuff.
-*****-(Name edited out)
Response – 2
What a medieval mentality is this, my friend *******!
I am really shocked. Such a proposal coming from an educated, elite member of society! Am I in 2011 or 1102 !.
To pack off the girls early, to ensure they do not marry boys of other communities! By clipping their wings, preventing their studying beyond, say matriculation, they will not be able to take up any job and thus will be compelled to remain in the kitchen serving the family and be good wives and not mere bed-mates. This is exactly what you want !
But that is not what the present day boys want ! They want a partner who will have the capabilities to row the life-boat along with them and not a meek woman. They want educated girls, who can drive the car, teach children at home, help them in bank work, host guests and talk to them in a language which they will understand, handle emails, phones and call for an ambulance or doctor in emergencies. And God forbid, if they are immobilized or removed form the scene due to an unfortunate event, their spouses should be able to take care of the offspring , educate them, raise them and see that they are settled in life. Any father will hope for that and that is a very legitimate expectation from their life-partners. .
Can’t an SSLC girl perform all these tasks, you may ask. They might be. But will a graduate or PG boy opt for a non-graduate? The boys will insist on educational parity as the girls does. So, to achieve your goal, we should not educate the boys too, beyond matriculation? Education is a valuable tool for the progress. Even the ultra orthodox elders of the other communities have now started encouraging the girls to improve their education.
In the olden days the house wives worked hard, but that was within the four walls of their house. Now half the day they have to spend outside, for their children’s schooling, shopping and other activities.
The married girls in my family, get up early morning, wake up the children and prepare them to go to school, prepare food, drive the kids to school and from their proceed to their own work-place, pick up the kids from the school on their way back from their works, feed and teach them at night and also take care of their husbands’ needs at home and also outside and also do the shopping. This is in addition to their Sunday activities when they have to take their kids to the park, sports, swimming, music, dance and other activities. In India also almost the same routine is observed. Only difference might be that many may not drive their vehicles but make use of other transports.
Do you have a daughter of 16 or 17, Responsible Parent? Just tell her that you want her to discontinue her studies at matriculation as you are ‘arranging’ her marriage. I know what reply you will get from her, because nearly three decades ago, my mother suggested the same to my sisters and they said ‘no’. Fortunately my father was not like you. I encouraged him and put them in college and helped to complete their graduation. They worked as scientists and administrators, remaining as real good wives and also educated their children well who are now holding good positions.
I know the woes of the women of my generation who had to face the consequence of early marriage to elderly men who left this world throwing their women to the dust bin. You also might be having such unfortunate human beings in your family or in the friend- circle. Let not the history be repeated now Let us not talk about that sad story.
And migration to outer fields. Has it not happened before ? In my own circle there were a few cases, some 20-30 years ago.. Some flourished and some suffered. And that will continue.
Shall I tell you one more thing. As I mentioned in this column recently, in one of the four weddings I attended, during my recent trip to India, the bride groom was my son in law’s brother and the bride an Australian girl. The wedding was strictly according to the boy’s customs and it was real fun to watch the Australian father performing the rites! Last Sunday I attended a wedding in the Greater…. Here again the bride was an American girl, dressed in typical xyz community style.
So, there is a flow in the reverse direction too .
The oceans are shrinking. Among the westerns, there are many who find merit in our way of living. The exchange of cultural life and activities are unavoidable. When our children are aspiring to invade and occupy other planets you cannot stop them if they go beyond your village border to choose their life-partners.
And about the divorces. In the olden days, women suffered silently within the four walls of their houses, because they had no courage to fight the society and no means to survive if they come out. The present woman has both. Instead of stagnating, the water is flowing out freely now. Think of the Nair women who lived behind your village. It is not that they loved their husband less. But they had economical sovereignty. So, they could easily get rid of their husbands when they misbehaved. Instead of their going out they threw their husbands out of their house. But our women did not have it. The land was not in their name. For the present wives if not land, they have education, they have jobs. The husbands should behave like husbands and the wives should behave like wives. Otherwise the house will break. There are no caste or religious factors in this.
Don’t get disheartened. You cannot act against the wishes or your son or daughter and you should not also. I have four children; I do not know how many you have. As a senior person, my advice to you is allow them to study; don’t stop with matriculation. And allow them to select their life partners. Guide them from outside. Your turn was over and I do not know whether the selection was by you or your parents. My parents had a valid reason for asking me, through a telegram, to marry a girl of their choice; as kids, we had played together! And right from her grand mother, every one in the family was known to my mother!. They did not show me even a picture of my life partner.
But that was in the last century. We have come far, far, from there.
Love and regards,
******* (Name edited out)
Related posts
18 questions for young women (and men) of ‘marriageable age’.
I’m sick of sickening ‘arguments’ made by people who don’t see anything beyond certain point x-(
Haresh they are modern and educated family elders. And the person who wrote it means it very seriously. The second mail supports these ideas.
That’s even more unfortunate. The so-called modernness doesn’t cause any modernization or rationalization in their thought :-/
Even I stay in a hostel in Mumbai where almost everyone else pursues a professional course like CA but they wish their wife to be much less educated. And, almost none of them, that I know of, are willing to ‘let’ his wife work. It’s sickening to see an overwhelming majority of men having such ideology in who themselves have been staying in a metro city pursuing higher studies.
Will it take years or decades before they start being moderately broad-minded, if not more? :-/ Do they lack self-respect? Why exactly does an intelligent, educated and independent wife hurt them?
Women and their families are also convinced that they must marry someone who earns more. How does it really matter? Aren’t they a team, evolving, growing and living together? But the concept of the provider and the protector, and the provided for and the protected, the owner and the owned is deeply set – and it does a lot of harm.
Yes! You know… some of the most popular regional comedians/stage artists in Gujarat often mention during their shows that men are meant for working outside and women are born to work in kitchen and do household chores.
And, no one seems to be bothered. I’m sorry if I went off-topic
I happen to watch a show on Loksabha channel (I think) – it’s called Asmita and they had Surender Sharma a comedian or a ‘hasya kavi’ (he writes what some people think are funny rhymes, generally about an ugly, dark, fat wife and a pretty neighbour, he’s an an MCP ) and his views were along the same line, that everybody should do their job and the family life will run smoothly :\
I do not think they are modern and educated.. one does not become modern based on their living in metros and one does not become educated by earning degrees. One is not educated if he/she loses common sense and basic humanity.
I wish I had never read this email..my happy-friday is no longer happy
I disagree with you…People with such antiquated views are NOT modern…
I am speechless. The most disturbing thing about all this was the phrase “our women” … When even my parents do not think that I “belong” to them, the fact that such people think they own me.. its nauseating, to put it mildly. And he/she talks about women not being mere sex objects for their husbands (if the marry early). When he/she is thinking of women as objects owned/ directed/manipulated/blackmailed by them, to fit their mould.
I quote khalil gibran’s poem on marriage, which for me is “ideal” because it allows spaces, and allows the ‘me’ to thrive in the ‘us’ :
A very nice poem…. and truly feels like a wonderful marriage if its such!
Gibran’s take on how parents should treat children – I wish I could post this as a response to the original post!
Your children are not your children.
They are the sons and daughters of Life’s longing for itself.
They come through you but not from you,
And though they are with you, yet they belong not to you.
You may give them your love but not your thoughts.
For they have their own thoughts.
You may house their bodies but not their souls,
For their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow,
which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.
You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you.
For life goes not backward nor tarries with yesterday.
You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.
The archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite,
and He bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far.
Let your bending in the archer’s hand be for gladness;
For even as He loves the arrow that flies,
so He loves also the bow that is stable.
And somehow, these sort of “arguments” only amuse me these days. Maybe they’re just making sure their children don’t get to have the fun and the life they didn’t! If it was good enough for me, it’s good enough for them, let’s just call it culture and tradition! Could we start a signature campaign demanding that all parents with jawaan children be more open minded, and accepting of changes to “tradition”?
It is difficult to believe that people like this exist – but sadly they do, and not just amongst the previous generation, even amongst people of generation.
I know a lady here, who is educated(a CA), who laments that ‘girls these days’ have so many ‘demands’. Most of these demands are valid ones like, not wanting to move from where they work. This lady’s family is trying to arrange her brother’s wedding, and apparently all the women they have come across have ‘demands’! What is wrong is women have expectations out of the marriage? Is it so bad to want to know where the other person stands when it comes to important things like careers,and future plans?
As for marrying girls off young- sadly that is also something I have heard. Apparently it also helps that they do not have a mind of their own, so can be easily ‘moulded to fit into the in-laws family’
And it is even worse when it comes from people who should know better, who have had more exposure than the older generation.
I let the dates show because these were not written a few decades ago – they were written just last week. Imagine some intelligent, sensitive, thinking woman – (aware of her rights too!) stuck in such a family, and these people having the authority to take decisions that affect her life.
To people like these, the ideal marriage would be a narcissistic husband, and a codependent wife. Makes me wonder just how “wise” these elders really are!
Wait wait…from what I understand, older mature people getting together will not increase spirituality but 2 young horny kids riding high on hormones are going to be spiritual? Oh the bleeding irony!
This is not a golden opportunity for the girls but an opportunity for crazy parents who love “community” and favorable responses from the society more than they love their daughters. I think it is these parents that need some growing up to do!
The worst part is that this person himself states that girls married early can be influenced to adapt to husbands like it is some kind of achievement. Does he not see anything wrong in his own daughters needs and desires being squashed so that she can accommodate another’s? What kind of parent is he?
Clueless that is what is difficult to understand. Do fathers of daughters really see their daughters benefiting from this?
I am sure they don’t even want to know whether or not their daughters benefit from this. All they know is
1)that old is gold, that patriarchy is the best way to maintain a ‘balance’ in the Indian society and to preserve Indian culture
2)that patriarchy is under threat thanks to these liberated, educated, employed women who have a mind of their own and who don’t care too hoots for ‘Indian culture and traditions’
3)that as custodians of Indian culture, it is their primary duty to do all they can to uphold patriarchy without bothering about the fact that this is NOT in their daughter’s interest.
4) that women must pay the price for being born as women. By extension,women’s parents should also pay the price for begetting
daughters but then THEY, valued members of ABC/XYZ community, are
ready for it.
Clearly he is not thinking of his daughter. My guess is, he has a “perfect” wife who fits his MCP standards, or even worse, a wife whom he has forced to fit to his standards, and he sees nothing bad about his situation as he is clearly not harmed by any of these!
“two young horny kids riding high on hormones”!!! lovely way of putting it clueless…!
I seriously question the terms ‘education’ and ‘educated’…
What does education stand for and who do you consider educated?
If by obtaining degrees one gets to be called educated, there lies a serious flaw…
If the writer of this email is educated, I don’t think education is worth it.
One can function fine in life without education but without tolerance, patience, respect for women/ children/ elders, compassion, basic reasoning, common sense and logic….even a highly obtained education seems worthless.
Me – I agree. How does education not help in dealing with prejudices? I would have not realized how necessary it was to discuss these attitudes too, if I hadn’t read a post recently that suggested we do not have laws to protect women from mental cruelty in marriage, because that is like babying women.
I wish I have the email info for this community. I feel the desperate need to shake these people into the 21st century.
These are the parents that are selfish. Who for a few words of hollow praise from other community members will ruin the lives of their kids. These are the parents for whom society is more important than happiness, and control and fear is more important than respect.
These are threatened, scared, pushed to the corner patriarchs…trying hard to hold onto their power, supremacy and reign. I pity them and pray that they reach the threshold of spirituality soon.
Me – And Shail these days animal right activists object to even animals being treated like this.
As the only girl in my immediate family with a lot of younger female cousins, it will cause quite a scandal if I marry outside my community or religion but I don’t care. My parents have brought me up to be a very independent person and they trust my choices so if I decide to marry a ‘foriegn’ man they may not be sooo thrilled but I suspect that no one will stop me. The rest of the family will have no choice but to accept it too. Raising strong, responsible and independent daughters who can say NO to such ancient ideas about marriage without fear of what ‘society’ will think is very important. BTW I sincerely pity the wife of this guy and his daughters if any.
eh?! WTF ?!!
on a totally unrelated note, I was asked today if I am brave enough to travel alone in a “foreign” country! And my answer was met with surprise!
So, I guess parents “expecting” such type of brides are not uncommon!!
And here I was thinking that education actually helps broadens mind and helps with the attitude change!
Pixie, these attitudes are very common… most of our ‘social ills’ are caused by these attitudes.
Added later: But by leading meaningful, independent and happy lives women are helping in changing this. When someone who is suppressed sees you, somewhere in her mind, she is sure to ask if you can, why can’t she, and so you have done your bit by just living your life on your terms.
I loved the second response. Each parent of the guy should be reading this. Let them understand what the men want.
You know, everything is the fault of the women always. Husbands die of heart disease because wives don’t cook as much as their mommies did. Why? They have careers too and so they end up eating out much more. Of course, it doesn’t occur to anyone that maybe both can eat at home more often if both share the cooking instead of one person having to do it. Children are neglected and go ‘wayward’. Why? Because their mommies have become too independent and are ‘too’ career oriented blah blah. Nobody asks why parenting has to be one person’s responsibility when making babies is clearly a two person job. Basically, anything that threatens the husband-is-universe family setup is branded as being evil and the root of that evil is seen as being the woman. The idea that women are individuals first and brides and wives later is apparently so indigestible to these upholders of Indian Culture and Purity.
And of course, girl children call up their grand parents lamenting the loss of opportunity to have loooooooooong hair because “mummy has no time, she is working”, while the career oriented evil mom with fangs stands in the back ground , a picture of guilt.
Hello indianhomemaker!
u have got a very great blog… we need more ppl such as this gentleman to come out and put their thinking here so that the mirror can be shown to them… we r in a big flux of opposing thots between generations…
it is funny that there is no difference in children till a certain age in terms of education and jobs and then suddenly girls are given a raw deal .. be it in a marriage or career growth…
this is not only the state in india but all over the world…
the thinking needs to change… girls are not to obey others only… they have a thinking educated mind of their own and they shd use it without any fear.
Hi IHM,
It took me, oh, several minutes to write a comment for this atrocity, because I could not refrain myself from swearing. I am an Indian woman, so I am not surprised at the attitude of several people in India in this regards, but to blatantly see it, thoroughly outraged me.
A very good friend of mine went through mental anguish recently with his dad threatening suicide if my friend didn’t break off his relationship with a very smart girl he met at business school, just because she was not their community. But one thing is certain, our women are strong and our men are definitely getting smarter in recognizing and standing up against this hypocrisy. So this is changing. And on a related note, however, the advertising companies in India still make a ton of money marketing products by mocking our social norms…I find it hilarious, but I hope that it is no longer the norm anymore. And I found your videos very entertaining, while I wanted to give those guys a lesson in consumer psychology and behaviors.
I have followed your blog for a few years now, and have posted here and there anonymously. Only recently thought I would start a forum myself to indulge in some discussions and deliberations. Your blogs are heartfelt, smart and funny, and very touching. Looking forward to having some discussions with you in the future.
Charlie.
I also wish to add this here. Lots of people think Nair women were a very liberated lot. To start with, there was no system of marriage in the Nair community. There was a system known as ‘sambandham’ where a Nair woman could have a relationship with a man and bear children by him. She stayed in her own home and the children grew up with her. The man would visit. However, it was the maternal uncle or ammavan who was considered to be the head of this family and he would take all the important decisions. When the woman felt she did not want to be in the relationship, she could break it off with the man. Over the years, this turned into an exploitative system. The Namboodris (or Malayali brahmin class) had a tradition wherein only the eldest son could marry (to avoid breaking family property into small pieces) a Namboodri woman. The younger males would enter into sambandham relationships with Nair women and as a result, children born into this situation would have no rights on their father’s wealth. This was obviously caste-based exploitation. My own grandmother’s eldest sister had five children by five different men. They lived in extreme poverty and their situation was far from emancipation.
Nair women were also made to work in fields under many oppressive rules- including the infamous no-blouse rule. There are old women in my family who’ve worked under such conditions in those days. Only Namboodri women were allowed to cover their breasts. The Nair community was matrilineal, not matriarchal as many believe.
Thanks for using this email forward that I sent and converting it into a full fledged blog post.
That ensures wider circulation.
I have informed the other yahoo group members and also the original author of the post about this blog entry.
Let them know how these views are being received by others particularly modern women.
May be some of them will post their comments, either agreeing with you or defending their views.
It will make interesting reading.
Regards
GV
Its saddening to see such regressive thoughts coming out of an educated person living in this century
My heart goes out to the spouses and children of people propagating such regressive thoughts. Clearly they wouldn’t have the freedom to have a mind of their own and broaden their attitudes. So disturbing!
Oh wow. This kind of an “argument” makes me want to laugh and cry at the same time. This man is beyond parody. He is so far gone in his own surreal medievalism that he does not even notice the irony flowing through his own statements.
Clueless put it perfectly. How is an early marriage likely to make you spiritual? Is it because early marriages screw up your life so badly that you have no choice but to take refuge in some sort of comforting belief system?
What do such people think marriage is all about anyway? How is it supposed to suddenly change relatively normal individuals into some bizarre parody of the stereotypical Victorian Man and Woman? What is the magic in a ritualistic ceremony and a sheaf of papers which proclaim two people as lawfully wedded?
When did we as a society screw up so bad?
Could the reason for a shortage of girls be female infanticide? Just wondering…
In some villages in Haryana, brides are being ‘imported’ from Kerala because there are not enough of them…
Also because girl are choosing to marry out of community. Those who want girls from within the community mind their betrayal.
you know such narrow minded, creepy thinking is even more prevalent in places like london. i feel we folks who are born and brought up in india have much open minds compared to some of the folks here. they avoid getting married out of the so called community! sigh, what is wrong with everyone in the world today? feminist are busy doing the slut walks and solving their madame, madamozillleee issues while the men are busy ridiculing women and women, sigh, they are confused as to where is the world headed.
You know PK Talli (very interesting name
) we live in so many eras… some can’t see beyond community, some think domestic violence is a part of being a woman, and some realize that language should be gender sensitive.
oh by the that’s me Chintan
cheers
Chintu Singh
This is sickening! Is she going to be a parent whose daughter is docile and marry young? Is she not going to have an opinion of hers? Is she going to marry off her son young before he becomes independent and responsible?
The lady who wrote this mail must have graduated from some unknown University or bought a degree. Doesn’t seem like a really educated woman.
The email was posted by a man, not woman, in another community related yahoo group e mail list where I am a member.
It has been reproduced here after concealing names of persons and communities and religions.
This issue is relevant to all Indian communities and the thinking reflected in this e mail is prevalent in many indian communities.
There have been more responses to this email in the original forum and I plan to compile them, in a day or two and indicate a web link where interested persons can read them. I expect that it will take perhaps two more days for postings on this topic to cease. I will remove names before posting this compilation.
Regards
GV
First of all, let me point out that the original poster is in no way bothered about golden opportunities for girls. He says – “It is a golden opportunity for PARENTS to marry their daughters early.” Of course, we all know that the main duty of parents who have been unlucky enough to give birth to daughters is to marry them off as early as possible. Then they would have done their duty. Not to mention, attained a place in heaven by doing kanyadaan. In addition to this, there is the pride of telling the relatives and neighbours exactly how much you have given her in-laws as “gifts”. Even if it has bankrupted you, which is perhaps more a source of pride to some people. (Look how we bankrupted ourselves to give our beloved daughter a ‘good’ life) . Of course, no one gives dowry these days but somehow every parent with daughters worry about money for her marriage. One wonders why. Of course it is a golden opportunity for parents to showcase their ability to put up a good show for the janta.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1523566/Opportunity%20for%20girls%20-%20edited%20version.txt
For an edited version of the discussions on this thread please see the link above.
I have compiled a digest of all posts at the community yahoo group on this thread till Sunday 6 pm and edited out names of persons and communities and I have identified posters by their initials only.
The original posts on the forum will be accessible to registered members only.
My compilation at the link above will enable any one interested to follow this discussion in the community forum.
The original poster has replied to Sri SP who posted the second reply which was liked by you.
You will find some posts from others seconding the views of Sri VM, the original author of the controversial email and also some strong rebuttals from Sri S and Sri SP.
I have also informed the group about this blog and I am hoping some of them will post their comments right here.
Regards
GV
This man doesn’t need a reply. He needs a time machine. People like him should go and live in their century and this man would remember to set the dial to some BC, preferably 10,000 BC?
Why do we bother to reply to such men who have had every chance to observe the world and its progress, but still insist on their superiority and their warped ideas simply because they are male?
And when I remind myself to be grateful for the blessings I have received, I have to remind myself that it’s a blessing to not have been born in his house. That’s the only silver lining I see when I hear of men as these – I have much to be thankful for.
This topic really deserves wide discussion and I am glad that my friend GV brought my response to the original post.to this forum. Even in the yahoo group where this issue emerged, I received good support from the members and many of them were men!
. My best wishes to this group.
Love and regards,
sperikulam,
Baltimore
Hi IHM
I was reading the article “18 questions for young women (and men) of ‘marriageable age’”. As a person who is looking forward to get married in the near future, I started thinkng about the answers to different questions. I thought through each one of them but I could not get an answer on one
What about the money that each partner earns?I have so many questions on this. Some of them arose because of the comments posted in the blog I will be glad if somebody can help me out.
Suppose both the partners are working and they decide to have a joint account and seperate accounts also. How much does each person put in joint account and how much they keep for themeselves? Is it a fixed amount for each side or a percentage of each’s salary? Then if they decide to buy a house , will that be limited by the joint account or the individual account? Will the couple dreams be bounded by the lower salary or they will be boundless by the higher one?
What happens if one of them loses a job. Then does it becomes a one income hosuehold? Only to return back to pre-setting when the person finds the job?
What happens if one of them decides to go for further studies? If only one person is carrying the ‘weight’ in that period, than how does that work out? And do the working partner get some share in the increased income of the other partner?
And now the one that is bothering me the most. What about the money,if any, that each person has saved before the marriage. Is that strictly off limits? Or after the marriage,does that goes in the joint account?
I realize that as the time goes , many of these questions will become irrelevant. I understand that some of these question might sound ridiculous to many people. And some of them sound useless to me also. But I thought if I am putting it out, why not put everything on the table.
I will be glad if you can publish my question and I can get some answers on them
Thanks
IHM, I don’t want to give my name out as that will give out my gender. I rather get answers from a neutral perspective. I hope you publish my mail.
Suppose both the partners are working and they decide to have a joint account and seperate accounts also. How much does each person put in joint account and how much they keep for themselves? Is it a fixed amount for each side or a percentage of each’s salary?
No hard and fast rule. Each marriage works differently, and what people see as financially convenient/comfortable/effective differs from marriage to marriage. We certainly didn’t rush into any financial consolidation, I took a while before I (mentally)arrived at the “our” money thing, while for my husband it was much easier(and a total non-issue for him). And it’s a matter of trust too – If I had an insecure feeling about my putting all my money into a joint account, the money is not the thing to be examined, the relationship is. That said, your account type needn’t determine how tight you are. Different arrangements work for different people.
Then if they decide to buy a house , will that be limited by the joint account or the individual account? Will the couple dreams be bounded by the lower salary or they will be boundless by the higher one?
A : We don’t have a house, but I definitely see both of us chipping in and pooling all of our available resources if we were to buy one(and unless you are extremely rich, you’d need to pool in every penny
)
Dreams? I’m not sure what you mean here. You mean, like the things a couple can afford like vacation or expensive buys? For us, that’s definitely a sum of both salaries.
What happens if one of them loses a job. Then does it becomes a one income hosuehold? Only to return back to pre-setting when the person finds the job?
A : I was on loss of pay for most part of the last year. We reverted to a single income. My husband wants to ditch his job next year to pursue something else – I’ll bring the single income then. No big deal. Happens all the time. It’s a marriage, not just a sharing of rent and living expenses
What happens if one of them decides to go for further studies? If only one person is carrying the ‘weight’ in that period, than how does that work out? And do the working partner get some share in the increased income of the other partner?
A : Hmm. It’s not a business arrangement!
And now the one that is bothering me the most. What about the money,if any, that each person has saved before the marriage. Is that strictly off limits? Or after the marriage,does that goes in the joint account?
A : We merged our pre-marriage savings and things a while ago – convenience was the key, not anything else.
if you are marrying someone you don’t know(DON’T!), may be these questions arise? I don’t know. But many of these questions come across as very insecure.
These questions never occurred to me in 1975 when I got married.
To us marriage was a sacred a union of two souls not a business arrangement.
Concepts like “my money”, “your money” and “our money” are simply non issues for us.
Everything I own is shared with my wife.
Everything she owns is mine too.
And that includes whatever we owned before marriage.
I have never had anything other than a joint account with my wife.
The only individual account we have is the pension account.
But we have named each other as the nominee.
Your questions indicate a possible fear of the marriage not working out.
If I am right then the list of questions can be extended.
Will you wonder if hospitalisation expenses of one partner will be met from that particular partner’s bank account and not the joint account?
If your parents need money for medical expenses, and you don’t have enough, will the other partner chip in?
After the marriage has survived for a few years, all these will become non issues.
If you have these fears, I suggest you discuss them with your partner and wait a little longer. A marriage should be for better or for worse.
Don’t marry if you are not confident about the success of the marriage.
If in spite of your confidence, the marriage fails then it is fate. Be ready to be guided by the law of the land as regards the splitting of assets when separating.
Regards
GV
(Male, age 63)
Dear Siva,
Glad to see you here.
Do pop in now and then, if only to see how differently people in the world at large, particularly modern educated women see issues.
Sometimes it is so different from how we in the community see it.
I will alert you whenever there is an issue being discussed here that could use your insights.
And whenever you write on women’s issues in your blog, do alert us and send us the link.
You will receive very enlightened comments from the readers here.
You have missed a number of interesting exchanges here in the past.
I have become a “regular” here.
Regards
GV
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I know the second responder meant well but the women he cites seem to be paragons of virtue who must be very tired if they manage all this: “The married girls in my family, get up early morning, wake up the children and prepare them to go to school, prepare food, drive the kids to school and from their proceed to their own work-place, pick up the kids from the school on their way back from their works, feed and teach them at night and also take care of their husbands’ needs at home and also outside and also do the shopping….”
I think people need to stop expecting women to be either pushovers or Superwomen and focus on shared responsibility between partners in a marriage, since that is what makes a marriage happy for both partners. I suppose if he mentioned husbands sharing the work, the original poster might have had a heart attack so he decided to make the idea of a woman with her own mind and interests more palatable but I think that in the long run, that’s not the way to go.
Me – I agree.
And to think that we are in 2011!! and like someone has pointed out- the second comment makes me imagine a woman with a wrinke-free face, ten arms, a permanent smile, ever neat, up before the rest of the household, and last to go to bed– its tiring to even think…
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