1. Men need liberation from being family breadwinners or ATM cards. All responsibilities should be shared by all adult family members.
If there is a family business, the son must (and the pressure increases if he is the first male child) join it, no matter how unsuited or how unwilling.
2. Men should be able to pursue their dreams.
I know of one talented man who wanted to be a theater artist, and still hopes to – some day when his family is settled. Men need liberation from a system that expects them to – marry, ensure their spouse is dutiful,and have sons to carry on the family name …and the same responsibilities.
3. Men need liberation from being ‘protectors’ of women. Boys as little as four are taught to take care of all the women in the family. We might think it’s no big deal, it prepares them for taking over future responsibilities – but it is a burden, and I think every child has a right to stay a child while he is a child.
Girls who do not have brothers manage perfectly fine, women who do not have sons or husbands learn to ‘protect’ themselves. I think families should make an effort to encourage girls to take care of themselves, so their brothers – sometimes years younger – are not forced to be their ‘protectors’.
4. Another responsibility a lot of Indian boys have is of escorting the women in the family. Thousands of women travel to work and at all hours on their own, but many thousand more from all backgrounds are always accompanied by some male relative. It is a waste of time for the male relative. I think our society should realise that they have more to do in life than following (or leading) female relatives who can easily learn to move on their own.
I know of this woman who had an opportunity to sing at a Radio Station (in 1970s) but since her brother couldn’t accompany her there everyday, she had to miss her dream opportunity. The woman was 25 then. Why couldn’t she be shown how she could commute on her own, instead of forcing an unwilling and bored sibling to accompany her?
5. In many families men are also the family chauffeurs. Women – same generation, age and educational qualifications wait for male members to drive them wherever they have to go. This when thousands of women all over the world drive their own cars.
Shouldn’t a man know that if he needs to be driven somewhere, he can rely on a female member with the same ease she finds him reliable. Driving and cooking are important skills for all men and women.
6. In conservative families men are expected to know whether their adult spouse and siblings are appropriately (modestly) dressed. They also must guide them about where they can or can’t go (apart from driving them till there). This is seen as a part of ‘protect the women in the family’ responsibility. Once again, why not make every adult member take responsibility for themselves?
Even if the dependent female members initially dislike it, eventually everybody benefits from this.
7. And then unlike girls who are encouraged to get married and move on with their own family life (sometimes against their wishes, but that’s a different topic) – men are under immense pressure that their spouse, probably chosen by the family elders, is taught to be dutiful and respectful to their family.
Most parents are less selfish when looking for a life partner for their daughter. Dowry and social standing worries apart, they try to make sure they find someone who would care for the girl. The rules often change when it comes to sons. The family elders rarely look for a partner for the son, they generally look for a daughter in law for themselves.
Here the men often have little say in who they marry. Their life partner is chosen for her dowry, her height, her skin colour, her marks in Class X, her sister’s character and the number of male children in her family. And even after all this, if he falls in love with the wife, he is made to feel like he is abandoning the family. Daughters face no such problems, they can rave about how wonderful they think their husband is, the entire family looks indulgently, even proudly that a daughter from their family is so well settled. If she misses him, she is teased affectionately.
(This often makes a married daughter lie about any problems she might be facing, but that’s another blog post.) The happily married daughter is seen as an asset to the family name and honor, but not a happily married son. A married son’s opinion – if he disagrees is seen with suspicion because it might be tinged with his wife’s opinion, but a happily-married-daughter’s opinion is valued. Her spouse – unlike a son’s spouse, is an important family member. (Maybe the most important family member).
And the son dare not object to this bias because that is seen as the worst betrayal a son can ever show.
Now with equal property rights and equal responsibilities – this does seem unfair.
8. Being able to do jobs that are ‘reserved for women’ – like cooking or cleaning. The first ones to protest are women, mothers who have seen nothing better, and then wives who have been taught this is not a man’s job.
Remember ‘Salaam Namaste’?
9. Being able to enjoy looking good without being labeled.
Something as simple as being able to grow their hair. Why is it that most offices have no problem with women in long hair but feel men with long hair mean lack of discipline?
Men also have restriction on the colours they can wear, although most Indian men don’t care for colour stereotypes.
10. Freedom to show they are sensitive. Feelings like jealousy, frustration, fear, nervousness or insecurity are not be reserved for women, but men are expected to never show these feelings.
11. Paternity leave. And the freedom to show they are more than sperm donors. I know of men who made great parents, and their children would have benefited from some more time with them. Men should have the freedom and facilities to choose to be full time parents.
I am sure there are more. And just like equal rights for women are good for the entire society, equality for men is also good for the entire society.
Related post: International Men’s Day.
I think I’m a liberated guy
. But then I got lucky with my life partner…!
Me – You will see a lot of women say this too. Partners make such a lot of difference!
Now this is a balanced woman’s view point..Wonderful post..sending the link to my hubby.
nice one you got here! you capture everything that we as men go through every minute of our lives!
“Most parents are less selfish when looking for a life partner for their daughter.”
Yup, men need freedom too. This is what I had pointed out in my post http://thetomboymomoftwo.wordpress.com/2009/12/15/do-we-have-fair-expectations-from-our-children/
Thanks for this IHM…It’s so true but sometimes in the surge of feminism, we forget the fact that the more decent, ordinary guys get a raw deal too in our country!
Me – Corinne feminism is never against men or women, it is only against gender bias
The greatest contribution of feminism is not just documenting the oppression of women but relative oppression of men in a patriarchal society where they collectively gain and individually loose. Masculinity Studies is basically the legacy of feminism. Feminism has everything to do with oppressive system called patriarchy where people are boxed into genders and are expected to perpetuate this dysfunctional system at the expense of their lives and peace.
http://girlsguidetosurvival.wordpress.com/2010/01/20/desi-parenting-raising-confused-daughters/
Good post.
Peace,
Desi Girl
Sigh! the 2nd point … so true Starry!
Of all the days, you had to publish this post today !!! T.O.D.A.Y ???
You will soon know why !
Men need liberation from earth!! They should all settle in some other distant planet inaccessible by women! How do we multiply then and continue the civilisation??? God will think of some way, Im sure !
Me – Gosh Vimmuuu
… feminism means being against gender bias – men and women both.
LOL
Gosh IHM
, when did I ever say anything about feminism !!!!
Me – Vimmuuu with double m, triple u – did you read this post?
oh I did !!! and I even answered to your question right ?
Where did I mention in my comment about feminism??? I was only referring to the liberation that men needs !
and that has nothing to do with feminism; trust me !
Btw, I never ever enter the comment space without reading the post, not even for those number games
Me – I don’t do that either… not very often
Vimmuuu liberation from stereotypes is connected, if one is free, the other is automatically free too …
Pt.3 – I always hd this qs towards my friend parents
I mean, we r two girls and we were perfectly fine. Never needed someone to guard us all the time! And when my cousins were born, the li’l boys, I ws inturn asked to take care of them when we went arnd. But, in one of my friend’s case, her Mom used to send her li’l bro along telling her that one boy shud be arnd!
Me – It’s unfair to both, the kid is forced to give up his play to be with his sister, and if he can’t come along the sister can’t go!
When we were growing up – our neighbours had three daughters, and they were very independent, while we got used to feeling that having our brother around was safer.
My sister had to stay alone for a while and some relative pointed out the many child kidnapping cases, she asked, “All those kids who were kidnapped – their fathers were away?”
Great ideas!
wow ! I think am one of the lucky few men who are “liberated” but then the credit goes to my wife for supporting me in that
Me – I agree, I feel a partner’s support is essential!
IHM, some months back I was supposed to accompany my niece to Pune for a test she had to take, since her parents were unable to do so. When the arrangements were being finalised, I found that my father (84) was also coming with my niece and I. “Why??” I put the question. I got the answer, “You are two women going on your own. Having a male with you would be of help as also keep you safe.” Needless to say, I blew my fuse. I mean, WTH! People have this absurd idea that having a male member with you, whether 4-year old or a 84 year old means safety!
Love your post and all the points, especially the 6th one. And I specially root for the 11th.
Me – But Shail see it from your dad’s point of view – it can’t be fun for him to come with you, he would benefit from being freed from this burden of protecting you and any woman in the family but the conditioning is so strong that at 84 – he still feels you would be safer with him
Exactly IHM,its not fun for him especially at his age making a strenuous journey for no reason. I was annoyed for just that reason, at the absurdity of everyone concerned (by that I mean women and men in the family) assuming that his accompanying us would give us protection.
Me – Shail I think we are all so brainwashed we feel safer with men around. We should have statistics to show how much it actually helps… and how many are willing to give up free movement for this feeling of safety (it’s only a feeling I feel)…
I am proud of having read this post.
Me – Thank You Dev
I’ll print this for my wife… And that on a day when I’m wearing Pink
Btw, I heard the nominations of the Orange Prize for literature and was surprised to know that the Orange prize is only for women writers… How sexist? I thought, I’ll tell this to IHM
like kids think, I’ll tell this to the principal
Me – LOL heh heh …
They need to start calling it PINK Prize
@ Rakesh: BTW take a look at this, ‘My name is Swami and I am not fraud’
http://nirmukta.com/2010/03/26/my-name-is-swami/
when I saw this I thought, I’ll tell this to Rakesh
like kids think, I’ll tell this to the principal
(Tried posting it twice on your MNIK post, it says ‘discarded’!)
One more point- they shd be allowed to vent emotions not just aggression! Men shd be allowed to cry when they want and feel as much as they want too! Emotional men are in constant danger of being called wimps, weaklings or on the brink of a breakdown/mid life crisis! poor things!
Me – I agree Indy, and it starts when they are small kids
… do you agree with the 7th point?
Oh yeah, true ! I cry like a kid even now and then I hear “men dont cry” ! what the hell ! If I feel like laughing , I laugh and thats the same with my tears too !
Me – So you did read the post
Vandutan ya vandutan!!!
As you might know, we follow the ghar jamai system! I guess my world view is a bit skewed as compared to normal family set ups becos we are matriarchal! Lol! But yes, frankly, even so, I have seen some underlying current of tension when excessive attachment is shown, but usually only when there is some dispute or disagreement already! But no denying point seven is true!
Just brilliant.
You wrote:
“”Freedom to show they are sensitive. Feelings like jealousy, frustration, fear, nervousness or insecurity are not be reserved for women, but men are expected to never show these feelings.”"
Importantly , men must have freedom to CRY without getting labeled.
Cheers
This is one of my mother’s greatest contributions to my development as a human being: making me feel normal as a boy … when I cried. She did not say, “Don’t cry like a girl!!!”
Yes, the right to cry.
Me – Hats off to your mom!!
Very few sons are able to say this.
Thanks for this IHM.. never expected to hear this untold truth.
Excellent IHM!! I think this is one of your best posts ever
By ‘liberating’ men from the above expectations/bondages, women will benefit immensely!!!
Me – Everybody benefits. I have always felt when there is a fair and just society, all the members will find themselves happier
I LOVE THIS POST!
and they should also have a right to pms-considerations
am linking it on my fb, if it’s ok by you.
Me – Please do
I like the last point – Paternity leave.Hubbies can help their wives take care of new borns. By giving leaves only to women – you sort of hold them responsible for new borns whereas this shouldn’t be the case. Men and women should be equally responsible for taking care of new borns.
I also loved the 7th point “men are under immense pressure that their spouse, probably chosen by the family elders, is taught to be dutiful and respectful to their family.”
Even if she is not choosen by family members, our moms would probably blame us for not getting a gal who is dutiful and respectful to the level they desire. Mind you I said “moms” . Dad, probably not so much.
Me – It becomes a cycle, unhappy couple, father hides behind the newspaper, mother finds happiness in kids, insists son (not daughter!) brings her a good daughter in law -> and if the new bride is not suitable for the boy? the boy hides behind the newspaper , wife finds happiness in her children… cycle continues…
Point 5 – chauffeurs.I don’t mind doing that. I have observed ( and you know I am not being a Sexist ) that women don’t make good drivers. I don’t know why – but a lot of them don’t . I would rather have myself drop my mom or GF, their driving skills are horrible.
Me – LOL Chikki if you say this, they will happily let you drive
… but what if you wished to be driven somewhere, or picked up from the airport – won’t it be nice if they could pick you too?
@Chikki: A lot of men also are TERRIBLE drivers!
The reason why women don’t make good drivers…a lack of practice! If men (husbands and fathers) relinquished the wheel to wives and daughters without sitting in the passenger seat barking, the women might actually learn to drive well!
My father and hubby have been great that way, I was sent out alone, and fended for myself through the traffic jams, road rage, scrapes and dents. I’ve driven my dad to the hospital and am self-reliant because of their encouragement.
IHM,
I couldn’t have agreed more with you. Men need liberation from the expectation that they will sacrifice themselves to be with ageing parents. I know parents who bring up sons and daughters equally, talk about , believe in and ensure equal property rights for their sons and daughters, people with daughters who have no in-laws responsibilities who still expect that its only son who must pay back all for all the sleepless nights and sacrifices that were made when the childern were growing up.
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Lovely post!
We (=my husband and I) are facing many of these today. I work for a leading MNC and have been posted to Dubai. My husabnd moved with me as we didnt want to be the long distance couple and is looking for a job that matches his interests and skills. You can imagine what “others” might be saying.
This related to the daughter vs son ponts you ahve talked about. I feel the bond between the partners is most important, even though there will be comments, there will be pressures, there are bound to be unrealistic and rediculous expectations, but if the couple knows what they are doing is right, its all good.
I often think, What kind of a mother would she be who is upset and sad about her son being happy? Havent got any answer yet.
Wonderful post with quite a lot of insights! Most people don’t even realize how much they are bound by stereotyped thoughts!
To substantiate your post and what I posted earlier Merchant Ivory’s The Householder still stands tall.
Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_NI1iJPwhM&NR=1
Me – Yes… that made me think some more…
Very nice post.
:)
oh yaa …
my friend always talk about it …
Me – Women can talk about all their problems freely and women spouses are pampered by their parents.
Very relevant post, IHM!
There was an article in a malayalam newspaper recently about how atrocities against men never get the same space as that those against women. The reason could be that mostly these are emotional rather than physical.
As for protection, guess I was born lucky.
Me – It’s the way we grow up, some of us continue to feel the need to feel protected by a man, some don’t…
“Most parents are less selfish when looking for a life partner for their daughter. Dowry and social standing worries apart, they try to make sure they find someone who would care for the girl. The rules often change when it comes to sons. The family elders rarely look for a partner for the son, they generally look for a daughter in law for themselves.”
Perfect. Most cases, in an arranged marriage scenario the search is for a perfect DIL.
Love this post.
You should meet men in our family. ‘Lazy Bums’ as I call them. Chauffeuring? Protecting? Escorting? Growing up I wished that at times they did one of these things. e.g.:
I went to a girls school and every time, we have to deposit fees, I would be the only girl in the line filled with fathers and brothers of my schoolmates. You can’t imagine how awkward it used to feel.
or the times I asked my dad to get few things done in the bank as I was too busy and was told a firm no. He would instead give me few more tasks, as I was anyway going to bank!!
or instead of stopping me to go to the market after dark and going himself (forget escorting), my brother will give me his own list of things he want from there!
You have no idea how many times growing up, I wished for those over-protective type males in our family, especially when I watched girls my age getting everything in their hand. They didn’t have to worry about submitting checks on time, standing in lines on hot summer days or running around to get things done.
But at the end of the day I am thankful to them for making me as independent as I am now. They made their lives easier and in the process helped make my life easier later on…
Exactly, Richa. I have gone through the same feelings, cursing everyone for having to do things on my own, but on hindsight, I feel that was what laid the foundation for a very independent person
Excellent post! But I have reservations about something you wrote. The last time I traveled through Delhi, I had a night halt there and decided to spend it at my cousin`s place. However, I insisted he come and pick me up and drive me back to the airport – because I simply felt safer to have a man escort me back and forth! Yes, men do have this role of a ‘protector’ thrust on them, irrespective of what they want. But it is only natural, dont you think? I will definitely ‘feel’ safer if I walk down a dark road with a man, rather than alone. The mere presence of a man does NOT ward off dangers, I know. But it definitely makes one feel safer – to me it does!
:)
:)
And so, that`s one role The G is NEVER getting freedom from
Don’t you “feel safer” because you are told that you will be “safer” with a man around? I have always gone on to do really foolhardy things most of my life, and have become more “careful” only lately- finding myself repeating the same old platitudes of “being safe rather than sorry”. And then I asked myself, what had changed- just my attitude. I am back to being the way I was.
Nope…not because someone stashed some idea in my brain! That`s not me
:) I ‘feel’ safer because somewhere there`s this stupid part of me that likes to believe that if I`m roaming around with a man by my side, the eve teasers or hooligans or whoever, will actually think twice before baring their teeth. Like I mentioned, it is NEVER that way though. But I still continue to harbor that illusion
Pbly because a man would be physically stronger to ward off other men – stronger than I am i.e.. Am I even making any sense?
[Totally Offtopic]
Hi Allytude,
I used to be an avid reader of your blog, but lately I’ve noticed that it is closed off to the general public. Do you have any plans to open it back up again?
Regards,
- John
Thanks John, I have not written anything for a while- so have kind of closed my blog for a while too. Maybe the muse will comeback!
It’s good you wrote about this as it is a truth that needs to be recognised…Most people think that men have it all (in some aspects of life, they do) but this is not true…They have been trapped into believing they have opted for a lifestyle when they have been indoctrinated into choices they didn’t make freely…
Men can only be liberated if women are…V.S. Naipaul made a good observation in the opening sentence of his book ‘A Bend in the River’: “The world is what it is; men who are nothing, who allow themselves to become nothing, have no place in it.”
Balanced and fairly said. I agree
Me – Thanks Prateek
Hey very nice post..it really brought the problems MEN face in India
Wonderful post!!! At times, I used to wonder if u r biased against men (particularly, when u termed reservation for women as de-reservation). After reading this post, I know that u r not so.
I am amazed by the candid manner in which u write ur posts [ in a lighter vein, ur posts are discouraging me from writing blogs
]
Me – I agree – in fact crying is healthy. Men are prone to hypertension because they are pressurized to hide how they feel. A larger number of men commit suicide due to career related problems because no matter what they must earn.
And thanks… I feel we have reserved somethings for men and some for women – and no matter what their personal skills we force them to fit into these rigid roles.
And on top of everything else we don’t even like them to interact freely, if we did perhaps the expectations would gradually change into understanding.
Wonderful post !!! This is what men had been asking for centuries now. And its high time it happens.
Where is it written that men cannot wear certain colours, men cannot cry or express emotions to show them as weak, men cannot love his wife more than his mother and many more…. Its just been followed blindly. And from the comments, its clear that even the men dont relish being in that post.
So, lets change, lets liberate and lets all be great human beings with individual mind and thinking !!! Let men be liberated !!! If they are, then the women are free to do what they feel so passionate abt.
So rightly said IHM,men need liberation too, what with being trapped with expectations listed by you.Their lives do hover between paradise and pit. My husband keeps teasing me, it might seem to the world that men control their fate, but it is actually the women in his life that do it for him..be it a mother or a wife.
I remember reading this somewhere..Indira Gandhi once said…’My theory is that men are no more liberated than women.’
On a lighter note..its not women who are discriminated against, its men, they cannot bear children and no one seems to be doing anything about it.Great read as always.
Wonderful… I think this post needs to be read by many
*Forwarding link in process
Very true indeed
I am a bit late here, all my thoughts have already been shared.
Excellent post IHM, something we all need to give a more serious thought about, for it happens everywhere, everyday all around us
Keep up the fantastic work
Cheers!!
Excellent post IHM!! The thought you have shared are not just worth mulling over, but inculcating as well.
Me – Thanks M4
Brilliant! I think you’ve put down in words what a lot of us have been muttering in our mind.
And I think you’ve hit the nail on the head with the statement about family elders hunting for a d-i-l /caretaker for themselves rather than a wife for their son!
I am late here. Men have their own problems and if the son confides them with his wife and if it comes to the notice of his parents and sisters, he becomes JKG. But if the son-in-law confides with the daughter, everyone tend to appreciate – my SonIL is so close to my daughter!
‘ The happily married daughter is seen as an asset to the family name and honor, but not a happily married son’ so correct, IHM.
‘ In many families men are also the family chauffeurs.’ Even at this age, if our men see women driving a bit faster, they tease because she is a woman! My family does it even now, I am ashamed to say so, IHM!
All men and women should go through this post, atleast ones, I feel.
awesome awesome post… no the people who call IHM mail bashers can go away
good one
excellent article males also need freedom
super, super post! Been wanting to write on this for sometime, but i guess i’ll never do it as much justice as you did! Super post!
Esp in the Indian society, I think men are put under an immense lot of pressure to run the family, protect the female, this and that.
Hehe…I think differently, and I’m sure if my husband reads this, he’ll agree he’s a liberated soul
jokes apart… !!!!!!!!!!!
How I would love to be a Stay at home dad !!!!!! some day may your post come true !!!!!!!
Amen !!!!
enjoyed reading this post.we are in the 21st century and women have to learn to protect themselves and not always rely on husbands,sons or brothers.
From a certain point of view, men face greater discrimination over their work clothes than their female colleagues, if you consider that I may wear a saree, a shalwar-kameez, skirts or trousers depending on my work environment and tastes but a man is never, not ever, allowed to attend office in a simple dhoti-kurta. Even the Indian shirts of the local, collarless cuts are frowned upon as not being professional enough. Very silly.
Such a wonderful post,IHM! You have said it all. Men need liberating as much as women and as you say, a society that is equal for men and women is good for everyone.
Everything you say here, makes such perfect sense. If a man has the right to choose- the right to not feel guilty for being in love with his own wife, to do what he really wants, and not be weighed down by expectations,- surely he will be a much much happier person.
Pretty awesome post .. Nice to hear some logical points in favor of men… Keep writin ……..
Me – Thanks and welcome Mayank
Let there be complete equality!
Maybe some girls do like brothers, fathers and husbands telling them what to do, dropping them wherever they want to go etc……but I feel internally at least most girls hate that! We very much have our own heads to think what’s good for us, we do not need a guide post from the men! I don’t understand why men take up that role! it’s horrible for a woman! so much of interference, no freedom of choice!
According to me most men love to dominate, it might be the part of their male ego! So it’s some role they love to play, not some role forced onto them unlike the woman!
Most of the roles that a woman has to play are rather stereotyped! A woman is expected to be shy, expected to cook well, expected to leave her family n stay with her in laws…..n these expectations r much strnger than those xpectations of a guy!
i agree with d last 4 pnts! yes men r sensitive , they can shed tears n have a sense of fashion tht’s unique to their personality n shud take a paternity leave!
in indian society though- men have always njoyed more freedom! in fact women never get freedom, they have to take it…whether peacefully o otherwise!
i feel men should stop sulking!
times r changin very fast- v can do almost everythin….yeah….v might need some protection from ur species at certain times of d ngt or in certain localities, tht too coz some frm ur own species misbehave with us!
In reality, all d roles tht u take up , n all d responsibilities to protect us etc are taken up bcoz of some problematic elements in ur species only! if d male species were to behave themselves, we women wud’ve been freed frm all tensions, worries n problems- dis is all tht d women needs liberation frm!! n our liberation is ultimately d ans to ur liberation it seems!
Me – I agree Janaki. In India and in most societies men have enjoyed freedom and women have been controlled. But when the system put men on duty to control women’s lives, this also made men the prisoners of those duties. They have almost no choice in many of these. If women are able to move freely, men will also become free of their duties as guardians and protectors. Equality is as good for men as it is for women.
Little children, both girls and boys are also made to fit into these stereotypes. , take a look at this comment,
And about protection – let me write another post about it.
IHM,
I’m pretty late in posting this comment. Nevertheless. I shared this link with several friends, even kicked off a group discussion over email. It led to quite a debate actually. There are way too many points and I think I’l rather do a post on this topic myself. But to provide a few quick opinions:
1) This is an absolutely relevant post. Hats off to you for being a stauch feminist by adhering to the main principle of feminism: equality (and not “overthrowing the men”
)
2) It is true that even in this day, the odds are heavily against the woman. But, it is also true that men dont have everything easy either. Externally they may come across as bread-earning, dominating over their women, in control type of people. But, they undergo as much inner turmoil as the woman. At the end of the day, their life is as wrecked as the woman who is supposedly trampled upon by him
3) Men are as much a victim of conditioning as women. It takes enormous effort from their end to tear this curtain and look at things fairly and objectively. And yet, they do it. The countless men who support the feminist movement stand testimony to this.
4) This post has drawn strong reaction from some feminist friends – but I’m sure that’s just a knee-jerk reaction. A result of having one’s basic beliefs questioned. Once the initial defiance fades away, I’m sure the fairness of this post will settle in. But again, men have to face a constanct barrage of “you men are so unfair” from feminists. It is a hallmark of men’s perseverance and commitment to the feminist cause that they brush aside such discouragement from the very people for whom they are fighting!
Me – Kiran, feminists movements would not have succeeded without men’s support. I have seen men fighting for education for women – in days when women were not given education, they sent their daughters to school, my grandfather’s favorite line was always about whether or not a girl was financially self reliant, Gandhi fought against ‘purdah’, Nehru and Ambedkar fought to create the Uniform Civil Code, thousand of men joined women in Pink Chaddi Caimpaign last year.
One incident I remember is when we had a visitor (now 65) sitting on the dining table – who objected to picking his own chappati from the serving basket and placing it on his own plate (some female member did it in his house) – and while I was trying to figure out what he wanted, another man (would have been 76 now) picked the chappati and placed it on his plate without a comment. The first man wasn’t happy that another man did it, (he only wanted a woman to do this) – but had to eat it
Me – Sums up our attitudes Allytude.
Good post.I need to get more liberated too. I hope my son will be fully liberated
u balanced the whole blog with a single post,, nice..
Me – Thank You
Indeed a great perspective. To look and question traditional, or rather accepted, or rather expected gender roles.
But it always make me wonder ‘why is it what it is” and “how old has it been”.
Like we cannot take the pressure away from girls to look beautiful and cute, we may not be able to take away the pressure from boys and men to feel macho.
Collective wisdom can only flourish when we understand or be open to history and its role that it played to get us where we are.
I had written a blog on how individualism conflicts with collective wisdom, which may interest you all. It was a thought that I got after reading the book committed by Elizabeth Gilbert.http://bit.ly/9hSKD9
Me – True Durlov, collective good is convenient for the few who benefit from it. It has led to a situation where the society feels 50% babies (and 50% citizens) are a burden – who should not be born. In villages all over India, Tamil Nadu, Uttar Pradesh and Bihar, and in Haryana, and more talked about in Rajasthan – girl babies have been killed at birth or through neglect. I think this is the biggest indication, although there are thousands (millions) of other stories – like what Khap Panchayat is doing in the name of collective wisdom today.
Individual rights means no body else gets to decide what’s good for another person, simply because there is no way to know that the one who is deciding has no selfish interest in these decisions.
Collective wisdom evolves, IHM. I am not against evolution. Sati pratha didnt die of individual wisdom. It died of collective wisdom.
Did you read my blog where I say ‘everyone of us cant be Elizabeth Gilbert and afford to learn life every lifetime’
Me – I have not read this author Durlov.
I am not sure which wisdom banned widow burning (sati pratha) Durlov but I know ‘individual wisdom’ would have crushed the idea of widow burning right in the beginning .
I wonder if we would like ‘group/mob/society/group of a few individual’s wisdom’ to take personal decisions for us.
‘Collective wisdom’ is only a bunch of people’s individual wisdom. History shows those who interpret collective wisdom, seem to make sure it supports them. Take a look at this comment.
Thank you, IHM, for this splendid thought.
You are such a gracious and kind woman, to think about the liberation of men. I put you in the category of women like my mother who, despite being dominated by so many men in her short life of 43 years, brought me up in such a way that her eldest son would think about freedom for women.
My wife and daughter benefit from my education at the hands of my mother, though not as much as they wish.
Come back to this topic as often as you can, IHM. Do not bring it up only once or twice a year.
I come to your blog, IHM, because you are on of the few human beings among the women I know, who care for men and are not bitter by their experiences of exploitation and oppression.
I hope some time to be able to cross the anonymity of the blogosphere and get to know you as a person.
Till then, peace and love,
- Joe.
Me – Thank You
I will keep what you have said in mind and will bring it up more often.
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carried on from prev post.
what simple my observations tell me that a modern woman like you just simply doesnt want to take any reponsibilities. Neither you want to be housewives nor you want to be the breadwinners. What you women want is to be able to work and still expect the men to be primary breadwinners (i.e. no responsibilities for women on the money front) and then expect the men to pitch in for majority of the housework as well.
@Durlov: you are absolutely on the button.
H
Me – You feel working women should be able to live in their homes and be equal partners of their husbands? Working women should be able to find support at home and should be able to take care for their own parents, and expect the same support they provide to their husbands and their families? Do you feel if all the women were working (i.e. earning) women, then you will approve of the idea of equal opportunity for happiness and no-gender-bias? Is it possible that women feel the same way and that is why a lot of women want to be able to work and earn today?
Do you feel home makers have an easier time? Do you think they should have some free time, and some time when do their own thing? Do you think they need a break like all other working people? Do you think home makers are non-working women or are they non-earning women?
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Thank you, finally someone sees the world the way I do. Guys need to be liberated from a lot of things indeed. You might also add liberation from having to give up seats for perfectly healthy females in buses and trains. Poor little us.!
Somesh these seats help women avoid molesters in crowded buses, who try to stand right next to them… women can’t go away anywhere from a moving bus, having a seat for yourself means he can’t fall on your shoulder pretending to sleep
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AN EXAMPLE OF CREATIVE SPAMMING:
I was searching for crucial information on this subject. The information was vital as I am about to launch my very own portal. Thanks for providing a lacking hyperlink in my business. Anyway, in my language, there aren’t much good source like this.
THIS SPAMMER WANTED CRUCIAL INFORMATION ABOUT THE SUBJECT OF WHAT MEN NEEDED LIBERATION FROM? VERY INTERESTING.
The only thing desi men need freedom from are their guilt inducing toxic mothers.
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Rephrasing: The issues like foeticide that you mentioned were graves errors in history, which was out of context for the referred blogpost and at-that-moment thinking.
Me – Durlov infanticide and foeticide are still going on all over India. Also death through neglect.
We should use the brains of our parents, our teachers, our elders and we should use the brains of the writers that you like reading etc etc… And how have you come to a conclusion that Neha Chikkara didnt use her brain.. I have not read (may be I ve missed) that hers was an arranged marriage. Just to think aloud, (and thre are cases like this assumption) it may be that since she had taken the decision to marry without listenning to her parents, she had to end her life because she failed in her own decision..
And may be Ankit’s madness was also because of excess of individual choices in our lives today. We are a confused bunch today and are becoming confused as we embrase western individualism forgetting our traditions, customs and hereditary learnings…
I have a friend (Assamese) who married a Non-assamese girl without listenning to his parents’ logical arguments.. and later the girl and her parents started asking for money, car, house etc. Ultimately, there was a bitter divorce. So this was more like oolta dowri because the boy’s parents were rich and the boy was just doing okay not enough to provide for luxuries on his own…
Listen I have never once said that we should not use our own brain but at the same time we should not ignore collective wisdom. Is my point.
Are you saying that in the 1800s in US, when the divorce rate was almost nil, the couples were unhappy. Are you saying that we are happy now with the possibility of a divorce because of individual whims and choices?
Today we are at a breaking point. If we dont consider economic state of being, we at metros are comparatively living under more stress and tension than our counterparts in the lovely plains of Assam, Uttarakhand etc etc… divorces are lower (often heard in movies only), neighbours are closely linked, support systems are stronger, upbringing of children is more wholesome etc etc…
We should do a research in terms of wives being happy in a joint family vs wives being happy in a nuclear family. The parameters of happiness should be factored into every major aspects of daily life including conjugal happiness. Findings will be interesting. I can take the risk of saying that if the factor is “the number to times you fight with your spouse in a week”, the nuclear family will rank much higher…
Me – Durlov take a look at this post – http://indianhomemaker.wordpress.com/2008/08/30/to-an-anonymous-dil/
The results will be similar if we consider happiness between ‘both parents working (earning I mean)’ and the ‘husband primarily earning’…
Let me search if there exist such research… with equal samples from rural and urban india.
With more choices, comes more confusion. With more expectation, comes more disillusionment.
Me – Neha Chikara’s marriage was an arranged marriage.